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Dennis Rodman talks about Robinson and Hakeem - book

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DreamRun95, Dec 22, 2016.

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  1. jae713

    jae713 Member

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    Just look at the unanimous MVP last season. He was out played by just about every point guard he went againts, except for PAT.
     
    #41 jae713, Dec 23, 2016
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  2. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Member

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    This confirms that Olajuwon had David Robinson just bamboozled.
     
    #42 Baqui99, Dec 23, 2016
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  3. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    All I can say is anyone that believes anything this space cadet writes years after the fact is a complete fool.

    We all saw what happened and it was glorious. But don't swallow a word of this trash from Dennis Rodman just because it confirms something you like to hear.
     
    #43 A_3PO, Dec 23, 2016
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  4. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Rodman is NOT trash. I would love to have a Rodman type player on our team. That man was a defensive and rebounding beast.
     
    #44 chenjy9, Dec 23, 2016
  5. DreamRun95

    DreamRun95 Member

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    Here is my perspective from alot of anecdotes I have gathered.

    - Rodman claiming Hakeem destroyed Robinson is true.
    - Is Robinson solely responsible for the Spurs lost? No. Rodman has to shoulder some of that blame too for creating a situation that unfocused the team.
    - Did Rodman's writing have an ego? Most definitely, but we have to decipher what is ego boosting and what is fact.

    Could Rodman guard Hakeem better than Robinson?
    I believe so. If we look at Hakeem's battles that caused him some trouble, alot of them have to do with his battles against powers forwards especially those that were quick enough and physical enough to contest the low block position( somehow I'm reminded of Hakeem vs Shawn Kemp).
    Rodman was one of the best defenders against big men of his time and could frustrate players like Shaq and Karl Malone. He was what made the Bulls able to win their 2nd 3 peat. Taking over the vacant position left by Horace Grant.

    Could Rodman guard Bigs for an entire game?
    No. He was best use in short periods so as to not tire him out/ get too many fouls. Similar to Draymond Green. Both play very similar roles. There are videos of him on youtube guarding and slowing down Malone and Shaq in limited but key sequences.

    How good defensively was Rodman overall?
    Alot of players especially those on NBA TNT open court, talk about how he was an athletic freak similar to Michael Jordan. He was able to party all night, play the game, then do further extensive post-game workouts. Similar to the stories about MJ playing 36 holes of golf/ Not sleep and then play entire game of basketball. If the NBA is full of freaks athletically, then MJ and Rodman can be classified as Super-freaks.

    People talk about Rodman's rebounding ability but sometimes his rebounding overshadows how gifted he was defensively. This is demonstrated by his time with the Pistons where videos show his ability to move his feet quickly enough to draw a charge on MJ or to even block his shot. No one stops Jordan, but Rodman had the natural athleticism to at least slow him down on certain possessions. Even if we take away the Pistons illegal physicality, Coach Daly's coaching of technically sound defense is very much evident in Rodman.

    Was Dennis Rodman an Alpha type player?
    No. but neither was he a secondary type. He would be considered a unique specialist with extreme fearlessness but too volatile to build a team around him. AKA reminds me of Mad Max. It requires certain types of coaches and understandings to bring the best out of these types.

    I like to call these coaches - personality managers
    - Chuck Daly - Coached Dream team - Huge egos on that team, managed to successfully balanced it out. Many believed he was picked to coach the Dream team because of his ego management skill.
    - Coached Bad Boy Pistons - The name of that group says it all.

    - Rudy T - Many players describe him as a players coach. Able to bring out the best in them and motivate them. Highly rated and favourited by ex-players.

    - Phil Jackson - Believe in Zen or not, Phil has suceeded with Kobe,Shaq, MJ, Dennis. Managed to get MJ to buy into the triangle. Steve Kerr describes how Phil understood enough about Dennis to give him a very long chain compared to his other players because of Rodman's personality type.
    This flexible approach worked better, especially with players that need extreme micro management. The Spurs system did not offer this. If you look at the types of players Popovich draft, they rarely have personality issues or big egos. Popovich can be best described as to draw the best out of limited talent or to be able to develop talent.

    Its no surprise that Rodman excelled under Chuck Daly and Phil Jackson.

    What about David Robinson?
    David Robinson is no slouch. He deserved that MVP trophy for his regular season stats that season. He is a tier 1 level center of the Golden Age of NBA Centers. His ability to pace and run the floor was incredible. Not to mention putting up 71 points in a game. He had great athletic tools at his disposal more so than centers like Ewing. The only criticism of him maybe was that his mental toughness never matched up with his athletic gift. When Tim Duncan came along, David become the perfect complement to their very own Spurs Championship run.

    When we say Olajuwon was better than Robinson, that should not takeaway from how good Robinson was. If we put down Robinson's level of play we lessen Hakeem's accomplishment of beating Robinson.

    In regards to Patrick Ewing?
    Kenny Smith once said that Patrick Ewing did the most out of all the centers with the limited tools he was given. Was very much a warrior and underrated to an extent. You could say he was opposite to Robinson in that he was less athletically/technically gifted but had more mental fortitude. Ewing did manage to lead Georgetown over Olajuwon's Houston in 1984 so he was capable of winning as the main player of his team.
    His ability is described as mechanically sound but compared to Olajuwon's fluidity, mechanical and stiff is how people may describe Ewing.
     
    #45 DreamRun95, Dec 23, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2016
    Richie_Rich, Torn n Frayed, Mazulis and 1 other person like this.
  6. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    If you can read, I didn't say he wasn't a good player.
     
    #46 A_3PO, Dec 23, 2016
  7. Vin2k2

    Vin2k2 Member

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    For reference, compilation of Rodman guarding Dream in the WCF



    Edit: at the start of Game 5, commentators talk about how Rodman talked to coach on how to guard Dream.
     
    #47 Vin2k2, Dec 23, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2016
  8. bleedroxred79

    bleedroxred79 Member

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    Bro, Curry was outplayed numerous times and even handled in the finals. You could argue that his injury was the cause. Dream completely dominated and had "The Admiral" shaking in the locker room before games according to Rodman. Completely different scenario. 95' playoff Dream, is the pinnacle for a center ever IMO.
     
    #48 bleedroxred79, Dec 23, 2016
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  9. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Misread, apologies.
     
    #49 chenjy9, Dec 23, 2016
  10. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Member

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    As much as Dream deserves the amazing credit, Rudy T also deserves alot of credit for dismantling that soft team with his coaching. People praise D'antoni and his innovative coaching but Rudy started alot if it with thise Championship teams. He put a lineup out there that could shoot from anywhere. Dream had the ability to get the ball from anywhere and be deadly from 15 ft to the hole. Robert Horry was the original Draymond Green with Cassell, Kenny Smith Elie, and Drexler just shooting daggers from the 3pt line. Everyone passed the ball and it never got sticky. That team was impossible to stop.
     
    #50 tycoonchip, Dec 24, 2016
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  11. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    That series was the real big shot rob
     
    #51 tinman, Dec 24, 2016
  12. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Reminisce the good times, T-man.
     
    #52 daywalker02, Dec 24, 2016
  13. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Member

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    Rodman is a narcissist, but you didn't need me to tell you that. He makes no mistakes, his gameplan is the winning one, everybody would be better off listening to him. At the same time you see the Trumpian elements where he beats himself up over the tiniest slight. Winning championships on the Bulls and Pistons is not enough: he thinks about the one that got away.
     
    #53 Spacemoth, Dec 24, 2016
  14. dischead

    dischead Member

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    Are they highlights for Rodman or Hakeem? lol, not much there for Rodman, most of the highlights show a second defender coming and doubling Hakeem and he makes the right play and passes to the open man. Rodman did get a few offensive rebounds over Hakeem but that's what he did to everyone. Interesting some of the footage was from the first half haha.
     
    #54 dischead, Dec 24, 2016
  15. Alvin Choo

    Alvin Choo Member

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    David Robinson is like Pippen, glorified sidekick.
    Personally, I would take Dream, Shaq, and Ewing over him. Heck I even consider Alonzo Mourning a better player until he got sick.

    Good player? Hell yeah, arguably one of the top 50 players in the game. But certainly not a great player.
     
    #55 Alvin Choo, Dec 24, 2016
  16. FearTheBeardJH

    FearTheBeardJH Member

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    David Robinson was 30 wins, 12 losses against Hakeem in regular season. Hakeem shot 44% in those 42 games, but let's ignore all those facts since one playoff series that went 6 games is much greater sample size. Yes Hakeem vastly outplayed him in one series, but he could only dream of averaging 30 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 blocks on .577 TS%(Hakeem never had better TS% in any season for his career) like Robinson did for 80 games.

    Robinson is statistically the best center of all time(highest PER and WS/48) and that doesn't include non box score data like RAPM which ranks Robinson as the best defensive player of the 90's. Hakeem is considered a greater player due to variance and better built team around him, but he was not a better player.
     
    #56 FearTheBeardJH, Dec 24, 2016
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  17. Patience

    Patience Member

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    Of course one would take Dream or Shaq over Robinson. But I'd like to hear why you think Ewing and Mourning were better.

    Other than Ewing making the Finals the one year Jordan was out, Ewing doesn't have much of an argument. Robinson was better in almost every way. And Mourning did not have even close to the career of any of those other guys. Even if he had, he was nowhere near the offensive player as prime Robinson.

    I think calling Robinson a sidekick is a bit unfair. He was the main guy for many very successful teams in the 90s before Duncan was around. He won MVP for goodness sake. If anything, it's a credit to him that he was willing to adapt so successfully when Duncan joined the team.
     
    #57 Patience, Dec 24, 2016
  18. Mazulis

    Mazulis Member

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    "Hakeem just BAMBOOZLED david robinson."
    Can't say any better! Epic.
     
    #58 Mazulis, Dec 24, 2016
  19. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    What I would give to be able to watch the second championship again without knowing how it ends.
     
    #59 Mathloom, Dec 24, 2016
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  20. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Here's what I saw from just those plays where Rodman was on D against Dream in some form or fashion (many of these were switches from Dream's primary defender to Rodman):

    1, DT, pass out
    2. Baseline J +1 (foul on Rodman)
    3. DT, pass out
    4. DT, foul by Avery
    5. DT, pass out
    6. DT, pass out
    7. Bad pass by Horry, knocked away by Rodman
    8. Lob pass over Rodman, foul by Rodman (prevented dunk)
    9. DT, baseline jumper no good
    10. Baseline drive, jumper good
    11. Drive, shot good
    12. Rodman sloughs off Jones to steal Kenny pass to Dream on the wing
    13. Rodman pushes off, gets O rebound, Olajuwon blocks shot, Rodman lies on the floor and throws fit
    14. Dream steals from Rodman after rebound, Smith nails 3
    15. Shot from key misses short
    16. Rodman intentionally comes off his man to trip Dream as he is moving through the lane. Dream goes down for a bit. Dirty play. No hustle, just dirty.
    17. DT, pass out
    18. DT, pass out
    19.Jump hook good
    20. Jumper good
    21. DT, pass out
    22. Baseline drive, fouled by Rodman
    23. DT, pass out
    24. DT, pass out
    25. ROCKETS WIN!
     
    #60 rimrocker, Dec 24, 2016
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