If you really want a defensive minded, rebounder type at PF, I think you'd be best served by asking Rudy T to go Twin Towers style, and plug Cato in the starting line-up. I wouldn't mind seeing that happen in the rotation with relative frequency.
Griffin:- Will never be any one of these players,he is just a different type of person, with different priorities.With experience and'good' coaching he will develop into his own person, unlike another. He will be a strong rebounder and shotblocker with an asortment of shooting moves,but only in a supporting role, if he remains with the Rockets.
heypartner, please tell me your not comparing Rodman or Wallace to the greatest outlet passer in NBA history! You know and I know that neither Rodman or Wallace (OK, maybe Rodman during leap years) could hold Unseld's jock, Unseld was a much better all-around player than either of them! Hell, they're not even in Maurice Lucas' league. JEEZ!! My expectations are for Eddie to be an all-around player, i.e. rebounding, defense, and scoring. Honestly, he may never be in Wallace's league in rebounding & post defense, but once again, I expect him to be a real offensive option (scoring, passing, moving without the ball, etc.). I vote (& hope) for an all-around Griffin over a specialist like Wallace every day of the week and twice on the weekends. Otherwise, trade him for a PF who is an all-around player.
I can not agree more! Quite frankly, I think Eddie is the EXACT opposite of Ben Wallace for the reasons you mentioned. More so, when was the last time Ben Wallace took a 3 pointer. Eddie lives at the 3 point line.
Ben Wallace sucked up until the Grant Hill trade, it isn't like he came into the league playing the way that he is, it took him time to develop. The same goes with Eddie.
Too many great points w.r.t. Eddie. Before I try to respond, let me state my motivation of this thread. Yesterday evening, watching Kenny Thomas banging inside for the Sixers made me want to cry. Since that trade, we have a hole at 4. That has contributed to the Rockets downturn to a significant degree, IHMO. Dennis Rodman's last 3 seasons with the Bulls: 6'8'', 260 lb(?), 34.6 MPG, 15.4 RPG, 5.5 OFF, 0.33 BPG, 5.3 PPG. Ben Wallace's latest 3 seasons with the Pistons: 6'9'', 240 lb, 36.7 MPG, 13.6 RPG, 3.9 OFF, 2.92 BPG, 6.8 PPG. Eddie Griffin's 2 seasons with the Rockets: 6'10'', 232 lb, 25.7 MPG, 5.9 RPG, 1.7 OFF, 1.77 BPG, 8.7 PPG. Statistically, it doesn't seem to be a reach for Eddie to loose his 3-pointers and get 10+ RPG, 2 BPG and 10- PPG with 30+ MPG. The difficult part is his defensive desire and pride. That will determine the intangibles he can contribute to the defense. HP, I can swallow that crime pill in wanting Eddie to be a poor man's Ben. I would argue that his confusion on the court is not all his fault. His assignment itself is a confusion in the current rotation. I agree today's raw Eddie cann't dribble, cann't shoot and cann't pass. But his blocking instints and his body make me think that he has a chance to follow that Rodman/Wallace model and succeed as a Rocket. And that's actually what we need the most to prevail in the West with so many great power forwards. GATER, Rasheed Wallace is a great power forward with incredible talents. Chris Webber is lesser example. Others you mentioned are not my favorite power forwards on a contending team. To be specific, the Rockets championship drives go through LA, Dallas, Sac and San Antonio for years to come. In a 7-game series against LA, we need a bruiser and rebounder to counter the monster. Agaisnt Dallas, a poor man's Ben at 6'10'' will enable us to dorminate the paint and the board, at the same time will help contain Dirk when he penetrates. Against Sac, he can limit Clark's damages and make Webber a perimeter shooter. Against San Antonio, I like our odds if we control the board. It's a great point that Eddie is a "loser" with the acquisistion of Yao. I didn't think of that. Yao's addition certainly makes Eddie's development much more complicated. If Yao turns out to be a flopper as the next great center, we will need Eddie to be a stud. Otherwise, a poor man's Wallace will make me
Something else I keep seeing people say, first the guy is nothing like Sam Perkins. Then people keep saying Griffin doesn't have the "desire" to play in the post, he's only 20 years old. At that age Jermaine O'Neal didn't have "the desire", or more accurately wasn't mature enough to bang in the post on a regular basis. Give Griffin some time, I think he'll be a Rasheed Wallace-type player offensively, but will be a great shot-blocker and rebounder. People just have to give him time, unlike Amare Stoudemire, Griffin didn't come in with a freak physique ready made for the NBA. Neither did Jermaine O'Neal and look at him now!
Exactly! Everybody talks about Yao's problems getting position down low, but he outweighs EG by like 80 lbs.! EG is a kid playing against the Duncans, Webbers, and Sheeds of the world. These guys can just outphysical EG in a game. Have you all ever played against somebody just a lot stronger than you? Get hit a couple of times and it knocks most players out of rythm. I am not saying EG is scared, but what can he do to somebody like Wallace (either of them) or Duncan? Shaq has made his living off of punishing guys, EG is right now the Bizarro-Shaq.
I don't think Eddie Griffin's passing is that bad. He has a decent touch on his passes and he's made some nice inside feeds to Yao. As far as his willingness to pass. At this stage I believe he just wants to be involved in the offense. Seriously, what player wants to pass it everytime he touches the ball. When youre the 4th or 5th option, it's really hard to play "within" the offense, especially when you're 20. The problem is he takes way too many 3 pointers and his low post moves are terrible. The next time he's in the low post, watch him. He is always rushing his shot. He knows if he passes it, he'll never get it back. At this point he's just too thin to become a dominant defensive player or rebounder. We all know about the fundamental issues with his game. I believe the biggest challenge for EG is confidence. He's comfortable with what he's best at - blocking shots. He's very aggressive because he knows he can do it. At some point the Rockets are going to have to make up their minds about him. If he's not going to develop into a really good player, we need to let some other team take their chances. The NBA is all about getting young players with athleticism.
Eddie's also quick to leave his man in order to help the team, and maybe get himself another weak side block. I've seen us get burned many times with the opposing team dishing off to Eddie's man after Eddie "helps" on D, then often Yao ends up getting a defensive foul for trying to cover that guy.
Guys like EG don't become Rodman or Ben Wallace. Wallace and Rodman never had much in terms of offensive skills and they were drafted late in the NBA draft. EG was arguable the best player at his age coming out of high school, for him to play a role as a rebounding/defensive specialist would be a major step down for him so early in his career.
Well, if you guys think that Eddie is like Ben Wallace, let's not do what Orlando and Washington did, and let him slip through our hands... Ben didn't start blossomming until his 5th year in the league. This is Eddie's second. Orlando is still kicking themselves. They thought he was just cap filler. Eddie is only 20 years old. Even Yao wouldn't have done so well 2 years ago. I know, you'll say Stoudamire has been a beast at 20, and I'm VERY impressed with Amare, but he's one of the only ones who'd done that, and I think that's because his game is power, not finnesse ... Eddie will get it all together at some point, and we'll be very excited we have him.
Live, You still didn't answer my question about what team would not start Ben Wallace. As for Unseld, the best outlet passing Centers were Russell/Walton, not Unseld. Besides, he played in the era of wide open offenses, and the NBA doesn't allow fastbreaking like that anymore. As for comparing him to Rodman and Wallace, imo Unseld was not the defender or even rebounder of Rodman or Wallace (the past 2 yrs). I actually believe Rodman was the best rebounder I ever saw. You seem to focus only on offense and seem to downplay defense and rebounding from the PF/C position. I don't. Rodman/Wallace are from the era of the best defenses the NBA has ever seen. That is why I value them so high. Unseld is from the era of offense. Incredibly long arms, but about like Brand in rebounding/defense.
heypartner, I'll concede to you that Wallace would start, probably at C, for every team not named Lakers Rockets Hornets Spurs Kings but that says more about how pitiful the C position is in the NBA. In good times, the C position is where the action starts. I'll also concede that Unseld wasn't the "...greatest..." whatever, I got caught in the same trappings that a lot of the "experts" fall into since a lot of them feel the need to label and list players. IMHO, that's a sign of inadequacy, so I'll say "...one of the greatest..." Feel better now. FWIW, I don't downplay defense & rebounding, I downplay specialization. You say Unseld is from an era of offense, I say Unseld is from an era where players knew how to play. You may be someone who says that the players from Unseld's era didn't play defense (partially true), I say that Wallace is a by-product of the era of specialization. In today's game, teams are lucky if they have 4 players, a messily 1/3 of the active roster, who are truly gifted offensively. And of those 4, 2 of them play an all-around game (rebounding, passing, etc.) and take good shots. Now how hard is it to play defense in today's NBA again? You may think that I'm one of these PlayStation posters who expect everyone on the Rockets to score 20 a game, which is terribly incorrect. This is my philosophy: Good teams are composed of good players who accept a role. And when I write good players, I mean good all-around players with well-rounded skill sets. When players start to understand that, while they could probably score 20 a game, hand out 15 assists a game, or average a triple double a game, for the good of the team it would be in everyone's best interest that there be clearly defined roles and everyone has the responsibility to fulfill those roles, that's when teams ascend into greatness. Consider the Bad Boy Pistons, which is IMHO the last great team. Dumars probably could've been a 20+ per game scorer. Rodman could've been a 15-10, 18-12 guy from SF. Laimbeer could've been a bigger scorer, maybe Mahorn . These were good, solid players who were a little more well-rounded than you think. Unlike a lot of the young players now however, they understood that assuming a role was more important in the long-run than their stats. Look at the '80s Celtics. McHale could've been a bigger scorer (and even a good portion of his career coming off the bench), as could Parish. Ditto for DJ & Ainge. In today's NBA, everyone of these guys would try to get 20 a game. But everyone knew and accepted a role. Now answer a question for me: In Unseld's era, that era of no-defense, how would Rodman or Wallace do? I mean, even a player like Mo Lucas, who was as close to Wallace as that era had, could and would look to score.
If we had a poor man's Ben Wallace, this game against SA at home would have been really close. This was the game in which David Robinson played longest minutes for a long while. 14 /10? Come on. Either the Rockets is showcasing EG, or they already throw away this season as yet another rebulding year. Traded Kenny to make way for EG's growth? Yikes!!!
Eddie simply cannot shoot. It seems to be improving though. I THINK HE HAS FOUND A ROLE. He can be a monster offensive rebounder and big shotblocker. His job can be very simple. Just be sneaky and get open......since everyone leaves him open. And get easy layups. He is getting a lot of tipins nowadays since everyone is missing.......and are leaving him alone. I would rather have Ben Wallace or Dennis Rodman than Eddie Griffin.....but we don't. So yeah. And the Rockets still believe in him. Eddie............... He's just too skinny. Play Mo Taylor!!!
Well, Eddie's body has a lot room to grow, at age of 20. He is 230 today. He can easily be 250+ in two years. A 6'10" and 250+ rebounder and shot blocker will be an awsome addition to the Steve-Ming axis of whatever. When Eddie plays 30+ minutes a game, he can easily score 10 points just by putbacks or aley oops. Mo Taylor is still an unknown. The rockets should use him similar to the way Horace Grant was used in his Chicago days and LA days. Low post ISO with strong side clear-up will not work in the Western Conference. Still think Rox has a defense going? Offense has been stale in recent games, but defense is a bigger problem. The Rockets are young? Young players don't tire. Where is that young energy?
