It's either bash democrats or bash veteran war hero democrats - the burning in effigy of retired generals will commence tomorrow, as part of GWAYNECO MILITARY APPRECIATION MONTH 2006
Actually, it's unproven. there is an ongoing investigation, of which Murtha has no direct knowledge. his statements at best are premature, and at worst...
I would be curious in knowing how many stories NPR did on Abu Ghraib compared to the type of stories in your second post. Btw, how about some praise by a Democratic member of Congress not named Lieberman?
more on murtha's comments: http://www.mudvillegazette.com/milblogs/2006/05/17/#004761 The incident is still under investigation by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service and Multi-National Forces Iraq. The Marine Corps originally claimed that a convoy from the Camp Pendleton, Calif.-based Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, hit a roadside bomb that killed Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas, 20, of El Paso, Texas, and the ensuing firefight killed 15 Iraqi civilians — casualties the Corps at first claimed were killed in the bomb blast — including seven women and three children. A March 27 Time magazine report published claims by an Iraqi civil rights group that the Marines barged into houses near the bomb strike, throwing grenades and shooting civilians as they cowered in fear. The report prompted calls for a Pentagon probe. “It’s much worse than was reported in Time magazine,” Murtha, a Democrat, former Marine colonel and Vietnam war veteran, told reporters on Capitol Hill. “There was no firefight. There was no [bomb] that killed those innocent people,” Murtha explained, adding there were “about twice as many” Iraqis killed than Time had reported. No official investigation report has been released by the Pentagon and a spokesman for Murtha was unable to add to the congressman’s remarks. -- marine response: “I do not know where Rep. Murtha is obtaining is information,” said Lt. Col. Sean Gibson, a spokesman for Marine Corps Forces Central Command in Tampa, Fla. “Thoroughness will drive the investigation.”
While liberals may like a soldier here or there, the image generally conveyed by them is one of hatred for the military as an institution. Limousine liberals like to portay today's military as a combination of dumb rural hicks and exploited inner-city minorites. Also, the Democrats last presidential candidate disparaged soldiers in two wars, while the last Democratic President once famously said that he "loathed" the military.
I have not heard even a single anti-war protestor say anything of the like. The protestors take issue with the civilian leadership, not the officers.
Here's one by the Neocons hero, Winston Churchill... if only they had read history and Churchill's own words, they might not have sent us on this folly... Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965) And here are some Democrats on Defense and War... Yesterday, December 7, 1941 - a date which will live on in infamy - the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan. --Franklin D. Roosevelt "I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in." --George McGovern I have seen war. I have seen war on land and sea. I have seen blood running from the wounded. I have seen men coughing out their gassed lungs. I have seen the dead in the mud. I have seen cities destroyed. I have seen 200 limping, exhausted men come out of line—the survivors of a regiment of 1,000 that went forward 48 hours before. I have seen children starving. I have seen the agony of mothers and wives. I hate war. I have passed unnumbered hours, I shall pass unnumbered hours thinking and planning how war may be kept from this nation. --Franklin D. Roosevelt To say that there is a case for heroes is not to say that there is a case for hero worship. The surrender of decision, the unquestioning submission to leadership, the prostration of the average man before the Great Man -- these are the diseases of heroism, and they are fatal to human dignity. History amply shows that it is possible to have heroes without turning them into gods. And history shows, too, that when a society, in flight from hero worship, decides to do without great men at all, it gets into troubles of its own. --Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr. Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. --JFK A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living. --JFK The American presidency will demand more than ringing manifestos issued from the rear of the battle. It will demand that the President place himself in the very thick of the fight; that he care passionately about the fate of the people he leads... --JFK My most fervent prayer is to be a President who can make it possible for every boy in this land to grow to manhood by loving his country--instead of dying for it. --LBJ Iraq is an unjust war. --Jimmy Carter War is lawful violence, but even in its midst we acknowledge the need for rules. We know that in our wars there have been descents from these standards, often the result of spontaneous anger arising out of the passion of battle. But we have never before, to my knowledge, had a situation in which the framework for this kind of violence has been created by the president, nor have we had a situation where these things were mandated by directives signed by the secretary of defense, as it is alleged, and supported by the national security advisor. --Al Gore
I don't loathe the military. I wish the world were so peaceful and countries lived in so much harmony that no one needed a military, but seeing as that is utopia not reality I understand the need to have a strong fighting force. And I am patriotic enough to want the US to have the most powerful fighting force in the world. The place you and I go off the tracks is that you seem to think that even questioning if they are being used correctly is equal to hating the military. You also seem to think that wanting to hold our fighting men to high standards of ethical conduct and expressing dissapointment when they don't is "Wanting them to Fail" I think the military (with the exception of West Point officers) is comprised of mostly very patriotic young people of all racial backgrounds, but most of them are financially disadvantaged, and I think that is something to keep in mind, when engaging in "optional" wars. If the US Senate wouldn't send their own sons, they shouldn't be sending the sons of the underpriviledged.
The quotes I posted from the current Administration were all positive. They just happened to all be lies, that's all.
do you agree that when a congressman, and former marine, slanders the troops with unproven allegations that he's not exactly supporting them?
I suppose I should have been clearer earlier and stated that I'm really thinking of liberal Democrats at the highest levels rather than at the rank and file, though I guess the former do somewhat reflect the thinking of the latter. I also failed to mention the 2000 Democratic presidential candidate who appreciated the military by trying to toss out military ballots in Florida. Criticism can be useful, but everyone should understand that it emboldens the enemy. The constant criticism does not happen in a vacuum. The terrorists know that they cannot beat the US military on the battlefield. They know that their only hope is to turn public opinion against the mission.
Republicans and the troops. The boys were just blowing off a little steam at Aub Graib. It was like fraternity hijinks according to Rush Limbaugh. Republicans, Cheney, Dela, Dubya chickenhawks all. Kerry, Gore, Murtha,Vietnam Vets all. Sorry,Gwayenco. your crap will only cut it among the dittoheads.
I believe that when wrongdoing in the military is exposed it is good for the vast majority of the military which does not engage in wrongdoing. Neither you nor I know what Murtha knows nor who his sources are. We do know that he enjoys a close relationship with the military and its top brass and has for a very long time. I don't believe for a minute that Murtha would say these things definitely happened if he didn't have good reason to believe it. It's incredible to me that you're willing to take the word of an AWOL national guard guy who's been proven to have lied or willfully misled this country repeatedly on issues of war, no matter what he says, but you're skeptical of a universally respected veteran who has never even been accused of dishonesty. What color is the sky in your world?
The US military is at its best when used properly by our civilian leadership. Anything that negatively happens in Iraq I blame squarely on the shoulders of our inept civilian leadership in Washington. Our military personel are the finest in the world and are being asked to fight a war that is illegal, unjust and immoral.
This is crap. Gore's position was that ballots postmarked after Election Day should not be counted... a reasonable and legal position. The dispute was military ballots that had no postmark, which the Gore campaign encouraged Florida to count. The Repubs spun it to say that Gore was trying to keep military ballots from being counted. Incidentally, they did this while trying to disqualify civilian overseas ballots using the same rules...
You're shameless, dude. rimrocker just proved your claim about Gore and the military was bogus and you just go on repeating it. Pathetic. When you refuse to hear the truth and prefer propaganda instead it just proves you don't really care about the things you say you do.
