if you want her to win the democratic primary, you dont do it by going around bashing her and calling her hillaroid... you might try extolling her virtues... (which would be very very odd coming from you, see as how you loathe her very existence.) as far as if hillary wins the democratic primary, it will solidify the republicans... maybe. but they have a lot of work to do as far as repairing their image. plus if romney or gulianni is nominated, i think the republicans will lose a large portion of their power base. evangelical christians dont like to deviate from their principles of pro-life and anti-gay marriage. and i dont think theyre messing around when they say theyll vote for a 3rd party candidate.
i think trader secretly loves her, but cant admit it. he is like the 2nd grade boy who likes a girl and doesnt know how to express it so he makes fun of and picks on her. if you like bush as much as trader does, how could you not like hillary? she is... pro-continuing the iraq occupation pro-attacking iran pro-amnesty pro-north american union pro-removing protesters from public events pro-big government sounds like a tradertexx wet dream!
i thought you were an obama man? doesn't hillary support the war, and isn't that anathema to you? or is your loyalty to your party rather than your principles?
i think this poll proves that this board is more balanced than the bush/neo-con supporters like to admit. i think for the people who complain the loudest about perceived liberal bias on this board are the stanchest bush supporters and for them, if you are against bush you are a liberal. since most of the country is against this criminal adminstration, they feel that most of the country is "liberal". they dont even take into consideration the fact that many republicans and true conservatives are against bush.
As I have stated before, rooting for Hillary's nomination is too risky -- she could win. Also, as I have said in other threads, the younger Bush's presidency has divided the nation, but Hillary's presidency would draw and quarter it. I am astonished that the Democratic Party would risk pulling defeat from the jaws of victory just as I am astonished that Trader_Jorge would embrace the risk of a Hillary presidency. You, my young and talented friend, have been living in New York City too long . There is a huge reservoir of extreme distaste for Hillary. Trader_Jorge believes it is deep enough to float the GOP. I fear that it not deep enough to sink Hillary's boat.
Here is my explanation, which you may or may not want: There supposedly a known effect, whereby very early in the campaign cycle, 'who would you vote for' tends to equal 'who have you heard of before'. Hillary Clinton obviously has the most name recognition, and would seem to benefit most from the effect in these early polls. As you hear with every election, various factors affect turnout which can skew final poll results. Weather is an oft-cited example. How many of you Democrats out there felt an extra urgency to turn out last time around specifically to defeat dubbyah? I'm not saying its a valid reason, but Hillary would seem to be a candidate that would energize the Republican base to turn out. I will be voting for the Dem. candidate regardless, but I think of all the candidates who could magically pull defeat from the jaws of victory, Ms. Clinton is the one. I will agree that Americans may not hate her most, but I think the core that hates her could be sufficently motivated to tip the balance.
This coming from the guy who was quoting the leading poll figures of Dr. Howard "Mengele" Dean exactly four years ago and saying how he would run roughshod over Bush in the General. This coming from the guy who was trumpeting Forbes Kerry's exit polling figures and saying he'd have the largest mandate since Reagan. Good to see that you have your lesson, LOL. GOOD DAY
It is a risk worth taking. Besides, Obama and Edwards are more liberal than Hillary anyhow.... AND they are less polarizing (more electable). So is it really a true risk? Hillary has so many fatal flaws. Scandals, her history of failure, her shrill-ness, her fakeness, her two abortions, her doubletalk, she is symbolic of the partisan divide that exists in America. Voters are sick of the partisan divide. The playbook against her is ABUNDANT and RICH.
And yet you are willing to perpetuate that divide to win an election. Instead of trying to come to consensus and heal, you would rather pour acid on the election. Rove has taught you well.
Batman, I'm no expert on Hillary, but I do appreciate being ranked as one of her harshest critics. As for polls, well, polls are for pundits. Very few polls are telling, except for those who want to hear what they want to be told. Hence, as you will, polls are poles to muddy pools of proponent prols. On to Hillary. Why am I am so decidedly against her, sounding the warning clarions at every turn? IMO, she is bad for the country. We as a nation have always been a boiling pot rather than a melting pot, but each misfit of countrymen loved and respected each other. We need to return to the days of respect and civility before it is forever lost. IMO, Hillary will take us further into the dark, dank alleys we now wander. Her history of revenge, dark deals, vindictiveness and self-interest repels me. You have noticed that my two presidential choices -- Huckabee and Richardson -- are polar opposites in political agenda but they share one distinct attribute -- character, something Hillary will never understand or have.
This is the mindset of the current Republican Party. This is why they are right now running fake push polls in Kentucky that give the impression the Dem candidate for Gov is gay. They have nothing to run on. They have been wrong about every major issue in the last 16 years. They are morally and intellectually bankrupt. And all they can do is call the other side names and work very hard at creating such a toxic environment that the number of voters remains low. Pathetic. Traitorous even.
Forget Dean. Didn't Dukakis have something like an 18 point lead over Bush 41 back in the fall of '88 before losing in a landslide? I wouldn't put too much stock in Hillary vs. Guiliani polls right now. We've got a year til the election, so anything can happen. What Dems have to be concerned about is her unpopularity. Again, poll numbers can change, but for a while now somewhere around half the people polled have said they wouldn't vote for her under any circumstances. She can turn that around once she secures the nomination, but she's also not the most endearing person who ever lived. And this nonsense about giving 2 answers to every question might not derail her in the primaries, but there's no way the GOP nominee will let her get away with that crap during the actual campaign.
Here we go. Republicans create one of the most toxic political environments ever by consciously pursuing a 50+1 policy of never compromising. By pursuing a policy of intentionally rewarding red areas and punishing blue ones. By deliberately stifling any dissent. And yet now that a Dem is poised to win the Presidency, we now get the inevitable concerns about civility. Don't preach on civility when your Republican Party did these things and you said nothing. Don't preach on this when you quietly sat by while Newt and others developed the vocabulary of polarization, encouraged other Repubs to use it, and got to power because of it. Don't preach on this when your party impeached a President over stupid stuff. Don't preach on civility when your Party paid for people to storm a county courthouse where votes were being counted. Republicans have lost any and all standing to protest for civility. It's absurd. Clean up your own party first, then come talk to the rest of us. As for Hillary, she went to the Senate and worked hard at being civil and building relationships across the aisle. Now that she may be President, you are essentially saying that those people she worked with for the last six years can't be trusted to be as good as she is, so therefore she should not be president. I really would like to get to more civil public discourse, but I'm also tired of Dems being told to unilaterally disarm so the Republicans can quit being jerks. We've tried it. Civil discourse never followed... in fact the Repubs thought it was weakness and just upped the ante. No more. It's now incumbent on the Repubs to take the first step. I'm sure that will happen soon.
