Democratic National Convention Thread (August 25-28, 2008)

if hillary would have said she's a proud wife, she would have opened up herself to so many jokes from the hateful right wing that they would have driven her insane

 

I agree with some of that. It was a terrific speech. Arguably the best of her life considering the stage she was on. But did it really help Barack Obama? All those Clinton diehards who are pissed she isn't #1 or at the very least #2 on the ticket can't be feeling any better about her snub this morning. In a way, that speech was so good that it'll only serve to remind many of those supporters that their preferred candidate got screwed(in their mind anyway).

And I also agree with those who say she did very little to prop up Obama as the right man for the job. She delivered a few jabs at McCain and tried to rally her supporters around Obama. But did she say anything last night to counter all the McCain ads running right now that use her own words against Obama and how inexperienced and unprepared he is to be President? I didn't hear it.

 

The real test will be to see if her speech moves any of the polls this week.

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/living/columnists/dave-barry/v-print/story/658868.html

 

I largely agree with this post unfortunately. Obama has recently run a crappy campaign, thinking he had it won and playing it not to offend anyone. Generic corporate ads during the Olympics that I mistook for your typical "We're an oil company and we love the environment ads".

I am afraid that Obama's speech is going to come off like Mark Worner's with a better delivery. We are happy that he is a mild mannered guy and all and loves change, a new day in America etc. McSame is into wasting American lives and money in foreign wars, torturing folks, giving tax breaks to the wealth and could give a damn about health care for the uninsured. Expect Obama to mention this, but not get too worked up over it. It might offend some middle of the road Bush supporters who are thinking about crossing over.

I can't help but think that choosing Hillary would have generated tremendous excitment for 4 days at the Convention and that the media could not help but report on it. The middle of the road recent Obama supporters, but ardent Hillary haters, the believers of 25 yrs of Swiftboating, recently Bush supporters that we see on this bbs would be upset, but so what, they are not a majority of likely Obama voters and would not work for the ticket like the fired up Hillary supporters. It would be a hassle for Obama to deal with Bill, but so what, when you consider what is at stake.

Obama seems like he has been on vacation for a month. We know he is calm. He seems to have some progressive Democratic values. Hopefully he has some fire in his belly. We know Hillary does and we know Michelle does.

 

A casual friend of mine, Joe Deshotel, Jr. (son of the State Rep) is reporting daily from the DNC on KLVI 560 (out of Beaumont, but covers Houston) at 5:00 PM. He's just been spouting the party line, but it's been nice to hear an only slightly filtered first-hand account.

 

I'm hoping the lack of cut-throat attacks from Obama is a result of him waiting for after the repub national convention?

But the house-thing isn't that lame from a meta perspective; it gets a lot of free airplay and McCain is running around defending himself on the matter.

 

Fair enough, but I think Obama is going to have to show some passion and anger at the status quo somewhere along the line.

 

i was thinking last night, would it be risky to still attack the republicans on iraq, particularly that they are trying to say they deserve to lead on iraq for getting six months right on the surge after screwing up the first four years.

they need to bomb heavily on the fact that the republicans were against troop surges, and because of their incompetence the first four years, we've wasted time and money and security and our government finances are in shambles, and they don't get a second chance for finally getting the surge right. that woul be my line of reasoning.

 

Obama should talk about how Democrats and Republicans, for years, called for increasing the size of the military and Bush opposed it, while cutting taxes for the wealthy.




Impeach Bush/Cheney.

 

By not choosing her, the so-called Clinton's people will like Obama's better?

I knew from the very beginning that Obama would not choose Clinton. That's why he's just a good politician, instead of a revolutionary great one. It was a great speech from Clinton, in my opinion, the best so far for her. She did not insult the public intelligence, by playing the emotion card, but rather laid out the fundamentals and simple logic out there, for adults - are you in it for me only, or for yourselves and America? How much more powerful can it be? Those 18 million voters are the Dems can't afford to lose. Hillary did her part, gracefully, now it's Obama's turn to win them over. They are democratic and independent voters, not gifts, they can't be handed over on a silver plate.

I disagree with lots of things James said before, but he asked a great question last night - we had people asking whether she and Bill should make speeches at the convention, do they still have that question?

Some here were still complaining that Hillary didn't address the 3 am phone call ad or the qualified commander in chief. Aren't we greedy? Did Obama address the kitchen sink, fear monger, monster, win at any cost, power hungry, etc etc? How should Clinton address that? Confess to the mass that she was lying? Does anyone really think that will help the credibility of Democratic party as a whole? People here are worried that Bill Clinton will try to "outshine" everyone. Well, he will, without trying hard. After all, he's the ONLY Dem president in the adult life of most posters here.

People have feelings, that black female delegate didn't adore Obama, but said he should convince her and win her over, what's wrong with that? She said clearly she will NOT vote for McCain. What's the big fuss about that? Just because she didn't switch as nimbly as some professional opportunists?

 

This is just bizarre. Your argument is that the only way to be a uniter is to pick a particular person to be VP? Nevermind that there might be better choices that create a better administration. Or that Bill refused to be vetted, and that his personal dealings might undermine the change Obama is trying to fight for. Or that a former being in the background and looking over the shoulder of the President is a horrible idea. Obama should play pure politics and cave to a bunch of crazies, or he's a bad politician? What on earth?

I'd argue in this election alone, you have a loser who has done more for a winning nominee - what Romney has done for McCain has been nothing short of full-bore support.

This is silly. He's basically tied now, with a far superior ground organization and with much higher voter enthusiam, without those Hillary holdouts. But he's destined to lose without them?

You realize that campaigns don't actually start in earnest after the conventions, right? No one is paying attention to substance before the conventions - the main people who are paying attention are the ones who've already decided anyway. It's why both candidates bounce within a small range, and why conventions can produce massive bounces either way.

Any argument made before the convention is sort of wasted. To me, that's the biggest mistake with McCain's celebrity thing and the POW thing. It gets him a short term bounce that will fade, and then if he tries it again later, the effect is neutered. If he waited until October to use both of those, they'd have been far more effective. Using all your bullets in the summer is silly. (Though for him, part of the goal was to make him even viable, so it may have been a necessity.)

So your solution is to basically cave to a bunch of crazies? Yeah, that would send a great message about Obama's leadership abilities! Then the narrative would be how Obama couldn't stand up to the Clintons and how weak he is. You're basically simply buying into GOP talking points.

 

OK with cutting taxes on the wealhy. Weak on we wanted to build a bigger military and the surge would not have been necessary.

A majority realized we were deceived into a war that we should not have done. Those who want to focus on the surge and now it has all been worthwhile will not vote Democratic. They are the hard core 28% Bush supporters. Bad enough to focus the Democratic campaign once again on the 5% swing voters, but to cater to the lost 28%?

Thank goodness McCain is not a good campaigner and has supported the discreddited Bush 95% of the time. With the campaign Obama is running it is the main chance.

 

Looks like some people aren't buying it

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/26/AR2008082603921_pf.html

Many Clinton Supporters Say Speech Didn't Heal Divisions

By Eli Saslow
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 27, 2008; A01

DENVER, Aug. 26 -- Hillary Rodham Clinton's most loyal delegates came to the Pepsi Center on Tuesday night looking for direction. They listened, rapt, to a 20-minute speech that many proclaimed the best she had ever delivered, hoping her words could somehow unwind a year of tension in the Democratic Party. But when Clinton stepped off the stage and the standing ovation faded into silence, many of her supporters were left with a sobering realization: Even a tremendous speech couldn't erase their frustrations.

Despite Clinton's plea for Democrats to unite, her delegates remained divided as to how they should proceed.

There was Jerry Straughan, a professor from California, who listened from his seat in the rafters and shook his head at what he considered the speech's predictability. "It's a tactic," he said. "Who knows what she really thinks? With all the missteps that have taken place, this is the only thing she could do. So, yes, I'm still bitter."

There was JoAnn Enos, from Minnesota, who digested Clinton's resounding endorsement of Barack Obama and decided that she, too, will move on and get behind him. "I'll vote for [Obama] in the roll call," she said, "because that's what Hillary wants."

There was Shirley Love, from West Virginia, who smiled at Clinton's composure, waved a button bearing her name and felt a renewed pang of regret that she had lost the nomination. "She deserves it," Love said. "That's the thing that sticks with you. Even if she can move on easily, that's not as easy for everybody else."

Most delegates agreed that Clinton's impassioned speech marked a step toward reconciliation. The crowd in the Pepsi Center stood to applaud almost every time she mentioned Obama by name.

John Burkett, a Pennsylvania delegate and staunch Clinton supporter, attached an Obama button to his shirt. A New Mexico delegate said the "H" on his shirt will be replaced with an "O" come Thursday.

"She hit it right out of the ballpark," said Terie Norelli, New Hampshire's House speaker. "I've never been prouder of a Democrat than I was tonight." Norelli said the speech made her want to work hard for Obama. "She said it better than I ever could have: Everything I worked for and that she worked for would be at risk if we do anything less."

But Clinton's performance fell far short of the panacea the Democratic Party had desperately hoped for, delegates said. Some worried that, after Clinton's public withdrawal, more voters might defect for Republican John McCain or simply stay home.

"I'm not going to vote for Obama. I'm not going to vote for McCain, either," said Blanche Darley, 65, a Texas delegate for Clinton. Darley wore a button saying "Obamination Scares the Hell Out of Me."

"We love her, but it's our vote if we don't trust him or don't like him," said Darley, who was a superdelegate for Bill Clinton in the 1990s.

Weeping, Dawn Yingling, a 44-year-old single mother from Indianapolis, said that the speech was "fabulous" but that she still isn't going to work for the Obama campaign. "She was fabulous, nothing less than I expected. It's hard to sit here and think about she would have accomplished. We're not stupid -- we're not going to vote for John McCain," she said. But she'll limit her campaigning to a House candidate. "It will take a Congress as well as a president. That's what I can do and be true to who I am."

For Clinton's supporters, it was difficult to accept her speech as the public finale of her campaign, because this moment once held such tremendous potential. Shelby Leary, a delegate from West Virginia, stood to watch a video tribute to Clinton's success as a trailblazer and then chanted "Hillary" for 30 seconds with the rest of the crowd. Anne Price, from Washington state, wore a dozen Clinton buttons and wiped tears from her eyes.

It seemed a particularly resonant moment Tuesday night, which marked both Women's Equality Day and the 88th anniversary of women's suffrage.

"There's no way this night couldn't be emotional," Leary said. "A lot of us loved campaigning for her, and it's hard to watch it end. But after something like this, you have to have an emotional end for people to come to terms with things."

Clinton said Tuesday night that it is Obama's convention. But many of her supporters came here exclusively to honor her. One group traveled from New York and built an impromptu museum commemorating Clinton's historic campaign. Another lighted thousands of candles in a park to symbolize her widespread support.

On Tuesday morning, hundreds of loyalists formed a 200-yard parade and marched through downtown. They shouted into loudspeakers and beat drums, creating a cacophony that echoed across the blocks. As they began marching, some of the supporters chanted, "We want a roll call." Many of them wore their opinions on T-shirts: Country Over Party. Damn, We Wish You Were President. Still Making History. Democrats Left Behind.

At the front of the parade route, one banner summarized their message: Hillary. Who Else?

"A lot of people came here just because they wanted to celebrate Hillary," said Elizabeth Fiechter, a New York City lawyer who helped organize the parade. "We get criticism because there's this idea that the election should move on and just leave her behind. We're not going down that quietly."

The week of festivities for Clinton delegates and supporters started Monday with a meet-and-greet, where some supporters learned that they differ from one another more than they originally thought. The most recent Washington Post-ABC News poll showed that only 42 percent of Clinton voters classify themselves as "solidly behind" Obama, and that 20 percent plan to vote for McCain. But in Denver, Clinton supporters sometimes classified themselves as belonging to one of two categories: the sad and the angry.

"It just makes me upset because Hillary would have been the perfect woman to do this job," said Katherine Vincent, from Colorado. "I'm a Democrat first, but it's just difficult to get over."

"I hate Obama so much that I'm going to devote as much time to McCain as I did to Hillary," said Adita Blanco, a Democrat from Edward, Okla., who has never voted for a Republican. "Obama has nothing. He has no experience. The Democratic Party doesn't care about us. You couldn't treat [Clinton] any worse."

Perhaps the best example of the persistent divide in the Democratic Party came after Clinton's speech Tuesday night. The lights went down in the Pepsi Center, and some influential Democrats left downtown for good. They planned to head for the airport and fly home, long before Obama accepts the nomination in a speech at Invesco Field on Thursday night.

Clinton will hold a private meeting with her top financial advisers Wednesday, and many donors plan to leave immediately afterward. Terence R. McAuliffe, Clinton's campaign chairman and the former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, also plans to leave before Obama's speech. Many of the women from 18 Million Voices, Fiechter's pro-Clinton group, booked tickets for Wednesday and Thursday because "we really are taking a position of being indifferent to Obama," Fiechter said.

Clinton's delegates inside the Pepsi Center had no choice but to stick around, at least until the end of Wednesday's roll call.

"I wish I could leave," said Straughan, the professor from California. "To be honest, that would make this whole thing a lot easier."

 

From CNN

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tmdhhW-zSeU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tmdhhW-zSeU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

All will be forgotten soon.

 

This crap almost makes you want to be Republican....almost.

 

yes she didn't go into much about endorsing obama, specifically his inexperience. but what she basically says is if obama is a 5, mccain is a 1. mccain is like bush, if you vote for him, here's all the things that i agree with that you won't get with him. i think that's all she had to do to get the hillary voters over. basically, mccain won't fulfill what i believe if i was president. so vote for obama b/c he believes in the same policies that i do.

 

and how immature/delusional of people to believe every politician likes each other. look, they ran against each other in a historic primary that saw both of them grabbed 18 million votes or close to that. and b/c it was so close, it got extremely heated. so of course, there will be tension and bad blood. it's not surprising.

some people need to get over it, esp. hillary supporters. this is not an emotional game they're playing. it's not about them personally. it's about their party and what's best for the american people.

 

It's funny how people are acting like the 2008 Democratic Primary was the first one where the opponents thought out loud that they didn't think others were up for the job.