Democratic National Convention Thread (August 25-28, 2008)

I find it laughable that anybody is calling George W. Bush a conservative. His spending like a drunken sailor, etc is certainly not conservative.

 

My point is that he is trying to diminish the importance of the middle east just because that's what people want to hear.

I just hope he doesn't exactly believe it.... cause that would be a mistake.

 

For years, fiscal minded Conservatives didn't mind blending in with social Conservatives for the guise of party unity. Who knew one man and the 6 year Republican majority in Congress he led could unravel so much....

 

That's one of the things I like about you, Refman. While we may disagree on a lot of things politically, in this particular instance, we completely agree. Any conservative, any true conservative, who believes George W. Bush to be a member of that political group is living a delusion, IMO.

 

Well he and many of his followers call him a conservative. A branch of conservatism is more concerned with destroying government budgets than fiscal responsibility.

I guess you could call him a radical right winger.

The spending increase is mainly military spending. I think you will find that he held the line pretty well on spending for health, education the environment.

 

If you consider Republicans to be fiscal conservatives, you need to examine the histories and deficits of previous GOP administrations. Bush 43, Bush 41, Reagan, and Nixon all talked the talk, but never walked the walk. Fiscal responsibility is as fictional a plank in the GOP platform as a constitutional amendment against flag burning.

Further, fiscal conservatism isn't even in the vocabulary of the neo-cons who now control the GOP, and whom McCain has become a puppet to over the last 8 years. If you're a Goldwater Republican, you're better off voting for Bob Barr than John McCain.

 

glynch, Bush grew the size of the Federal government to record levels. He sure as heck didn't grow the military until years after Democrats and Republicans in Congress had been begging him to. He cut taxes while we were/are engaged in 2 wars... one needed and one a tragic, absurd mistake by the living embodiment of the Peter Principal. It wasn't so much the military spending as it was the tax cuts during the 2 wars. Certainly, it wasn't because of "classic" military spending. Yes, lots of the usual "gold toilet seats" for the Pentagon, but not nearly enough to account for the huge deficits. And John McCain wants to continue down the same fiscally irresponsible road.

 

i expect a 10+ pt lead in the gallup poll by monday. this convention was just straight up a home run for obama and the democrats. so much drama and coverage that it made you tune it, regardless of where your heart lies.

i doubt the RNC will garner much in depth attention. hell, ratings might be low. we all know how well mccain does v. big crowds

 

Great night!

 

"I am very scared of" the oil companies "mucking up the works of coming up with alternative fuel" by buying the companies that create potential/competitive alternatives and stifling their technologies. The hands-off strategy sure hasn't done much for us, has it?

ChrisBosh, the U.S. will still be importing oil from the Middle East in 10 years. But it's essential to invest in and accelerate the research into alternatives. The laissez faire philosophy of hoping something good happens on it's own is what has us so vulnerable to our enemies right now. It's a national security issue that cannot be left to the free market by itself. The energy industry isn't really a free market to start with. It's dominated by a few powerful players in the oil & gas industry who have too much power to influence things in their favor. The fact of the matter is when alternatives start becoming viable, it's going to be painful for some. I don't know exactly what you mean in your final sentence. The whole point is to reduce the influence and power of countries in the Middle East (thankfully Obama called that out specifically) and make the region LESS strategic than it is now. For the whole world to revolve around that nutty region is insane. Staying the current course would be more insane IMO.

 

Well, don't bet on that. Despite what some seem to think, the RNC is not run by morons. They'll hit their big notes of fear, foreign policy, non-San Francisco values, fear, experience, the right kind of change, and also probably fear.

McC will get a big bump also.

 

OK, then who was the last "true conservative" president that controlled government spending? George Washington? Abraham Lincoln? You, Refman or anyone else is free to answer.

The notion of a "fiscal conservative" president some Republicans describe is nothing more than a figment of their imagination. The last two fiscally responsible presidents who signed balanced budgets were Dems. The GOP's credibility on the issue has been destroyed beyond repair and anyone that believes McCain is different is "living a delusion" more than anyone else.

 

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/08/28/what_a_speech.html

Opinion and a roundup from Taegan Goddard:

What a Speech!

Sen. Barack Obama gave the greatest political speech I've ever heard. He was better than Reagan and better than Kennedy. For someone who loves politics and public service, it was an honor to be able to witness it.

Obama did not only what he had to do -- address specific policy details and answer Republican critics -- but he did it in a way that was inspiring. His call for change will resonate across the country even louder than before.

It's hard to see how Republicans will follow this in Minneapolis next week. Frankly, it's hard to see how Sen. John McCain will be able to win this election in a way that any American can be proud of.

Other reactions:

Andrew Sullivan: "Look: I'm biased at this point. I'm one of those people, deeply distressed at what has happened to America, deeply ashamed of my own misjudgments, who has shifted out of my ideological comfort zone because this man seems different to me, and this moment in history seems different to me... I've said it before - months and months ago. I should say it again tonight. This is a remarkable man at a vital moment. America would be crazy to throw this opportunity away. America must not throw this opportunity away."

Ezra Klein: "This has been the most aggressive speech of the week. And the most substantive I've seen Obama give. It's not a thematic address: It's not about hope or values or the universality of the American experience of the illusory obstacles that divide us. It's concrete. It's about the failure of the Republican Party, and the promises of the Democratic Party."

Ben Smith: "The expectations were high for Obama's rhetorical talent, and he met them, and the crowd at Mile High --now full almost to the brim, at a reported 84,000 -- is standing and cheering, waving the American flags they've been handed."

Josh Marshall: "I thought this was a very strong speech. About exactly what was needed."

Brian Rogers, McCain campaign spokesman: "When the temple comes down, the fireworks end, and the words are over, the facts remain: Senator Obama still has no record of bipartisanship, still opposes offshore drilling, still voted to raise taxes on those making just $42,000 per year, and still voted against funds for American troops in harm's way. The fact remains: Barack Obama is still not ready to be president."

 

fixed it for poor Brian. I'm honestly surprised he couldn't do better.

 

USC was ranked #1 in the 2007 preseason polls. That didn't mean anything when all was said and done.

 

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If you believe all of this, then you clearly have not been paying attention. Bush increased discretionary non-military spending to frightening levels.

I'm not really sure what blog gave you that talking point, but it is a fallacy.

 

My question is:

Then HOW ON EARTH could you even consider voting for McCain?!

 

Alex freaking Castellanos:

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nothing made me tune in. I found reruns of Fraiser more interesting.