Democracy in Israel

You're "still wating" for me to produce a list that you never asked for? That's pretty stupid. If you never ask for it, you will be waiting for a long time.

When and if you actually ask for it (instead of hinting at it), I will produce it. The rules that apply to dhimmi and the jizya are a basic part of sharia law, so I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you. You can just look at the countries that apply sharia, and there is your list.

 

Ummm, I never claimed they were on same footing as Muslims. But yes, once again, feel free to go off on tangent in a masturbatory show of how much you know. I'm quite familiar with the concept of dhimmi status.

My point was that they have legal rights. This was stated simply as a matter of fact. The difference here is that imposition of Shariah isn't within a democratic system. Israel is touted as a beacon of democracy. For someone who loves semantics games so much, one would think you would understand my point.

 

Your post was deceptive, at least to me, as it implied as much. In the same way I could say that Arabs in Israel have rights. They do. But saying it like that implies some sort of parity of rights, which doesn't exist. I could even say Palestinians have rights under Israeli law. That is technically accurate, but doesn't make the situation clear. It is deceptive by omission.

 

This:

in response to this

is deceptive?

I never claimed they were on equal footing. I don't know how you derived that from 'there are legal rights.' His post stated that they have no standing in a court of law, which is completely false.

 

But you missed my point. The point is, you can't impose your values on the culture of another country, even if they are a significant part of your own religion or value system.

You may find a topless girl sunbathing to be obscene, but my girlfriend doesn't, and neither do most public beaches in Israel. I wouldn't expect her to go to a beach in Iraq (where her family is from) and do the same thing. For that matter, Iraqis have every right to live under sharia if they want to. If they vote in a Shi'ite theocracy, that's their business.

But France is France, and they revolted to end coercion from both the monarchy and the Catholic Church, and laïcité is the result. Why should French secularism be less sacrosanct than another nation's religious sensibilities?


All of this (I think) is a moot point when you consider that PRIVATE schools are also subsidized by the French tax payer and cost on average a few hundred Euro a year and are not subjected to the same rules.

 

as a matter of fact it is perfectly fine to sunbath topless in Egypt on the red sea there

 

Not only Arab Israeli's can not vote, but they also can not own any property in Israel. It is a Jewish state for Jews only. Of course it is also the case in Saudi, but no one claims that is is the only Democratic country in the middle east and that everyoe should be following its footsteps

 

Stop making stuff up. Arab Israeli's can vote and own property.

And apparently in your book it's ok to do all types of evil things as long as you dont "claim" to be democratic. That gives these Arab joke "countries" a pass in your book.

 

you are wrong about that, Jizya is only implemented on occupied land where they are given the option to accept Islam or keep their religion and pay slightly more than a Muslim for services and security. Muslims now are not occupying any land and they are not charging anyone any Jizya and believe me even if they were, it would be less than what the rest of the Muslims are paying now a days knowing that a Muslim should pay 2.5% of their left over income at the end of every year to help the needy and they are now paying maybe 10 times this much to their non-elected governments

 

some 92 percent of Israel's land area is administered in accordance with ... [regulations which] prohibit these lands from being purchased, leased or worked by Arab citizens of Israel.

Source: The New York Times, Apr. 26, 1988.

Another http://www.antiwar.com/ips/biedermann.php?articleid=2093

 

religious tax differences:

• Malaysia

countries which block non-Muslim public displays of religion:

• Iran
• Saudi Arabia
• Afghanistan

partial inhibition of non-Muslim public religious displays:

• Indonesia
• Bangladesh
• Malaysia

Countries where practicing (in private or not) religions other than Islam is illegal:

• Maldives

Also you have countries like Pakistan, Iran, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia where non-muslim individuals have less rights to accuse muslims of crimes or address civil wrongs.

 

I guess I got you pretty fired up attacking my book eventhough you do not know which book I believe in if any. Well by the way I would love to be democratic, but not Israel type of democracy; THE REAL DEMOCRACY

 

That's misleading.

http://www.meforum.org/article/370
The land-owning situation in Israel today is as follows: 80.4 percent is owned by the government, 13.1 percent is privately owned by the JNF, and 6.5 percent is evenly divided between private Arab and Jewish owners. Thus, the ILA administers 93.5 percent of the land in Israel.14 Put differently, 93.5 percent of the land is unavailable for private ownership; such land is sold neither to Jews nor to Arabs but is leased out by the ILA. Thus, while it is true that Israeli law prevents the sale of state—owned land to Israeli Arabs, this alone is extremely misleading, for it is equally unavailable for sale to Jewish citizens of Israel.

...

Private lands. There are no restrictions on the purchase of private land in Israel. Israeli Arabs or non-citizens, including Arab foreigners, may freely purchase it. The Israeli authorities have placed no obstacles in the way of such purchases, which are proceeding, as Israel's Deputy Housing Minister Meir Porush recently noted:

 

But until you have a democracy it's ok to kill Jews and stuff?

 

ok I guess you win 3 out of at least 40 Muslim countries discriminate against foreigners (7%) and the Jewish State of Israel discriminate against its own citizens (100%)

 

It is NEVER OK to kill any human being whether it is a Jew, Christian or a Muslim all humans have the right to live and raise their children and watch them grow and prosper, but people tend to freak out and commit crazy stuff including innocent people becasue they loose hope or the pain they go through is intolerable and that is where the Palestinians have been for more than 60 years now and it spreads to the rest of the Arabs.

Believe me it has nothing to do with democarcy or anything becasue true demacracy does not exist in any country in that region including Israel. I

t is a Jungle there where the strong feeds on the weak but you must blame the strong when they feed on the week even when they are not hungry and when the week is so bony that feeding on him/her will not satisfy any hunger the strong will have.

 

I'm not really interested in breaking down your complaints. My points are all still valid, even if you don't like them. The fact that I didn't provide links doesn't somehow invalidate the truth. I expect that you are more than capable of looking these things up yourself.

And if you want to call me names you can feel free to do so without me around. If you think I'm impolite then you can address that without calling me names. I don't feel it necessary to redress every perceived wrong that you feel. In fact, I have no idea what those percieved wrongs are until you cry about them and tell me how much of an intelectually dishonst ass I am.

Ok, first from the same article,

[rquoter]
he 1997 Constitution designates Islam as the official state religion. The Government interprets this provision to impose a requirement that citizens be Muslims. Freedom of religion is restricted significantly. The law prohibits the practice by Maldivian citizens of any religion other than Islam. The president is the "supreme authority to propagate the tenets of Islam." Government regulations are based on Islamic law (Shari'a). Non-Muslim foreigners are allowed to practice their religion only privately. Visitors must also refrain from encouraging local citizens to practice any religion other than Islam.
[/rquoter]

So yes, I failed to note that people visiting on vacation or business aren't required to convert to Islam. Sorry for that glaring failure.

But really I choose to respond to this specific point because it highlights pretty much the universal recurrent theme in all of your arguments. When you don't like to concede the points where you are wrong, you try and deflect. Its only a few Muslims so it doesn't really count... its only a few rockets so they shouldn't matter.... they are so persecuted that when they murder it is understandable.

And then you proceed to act as if your justification for the wrong actions has proven that the wrong actions never occurred. I notice this going way back to the start of the original "Israel's Insanity" thread. I hesitated to say anything, but you keep using the tactic.

The facts are I provided you a list. Each of the items on the list are provable, if you don't chose to change definitions to suit disproving the point, and if you don't make up excuses and justifications that somehow are determined to have invalidated that point.

 

Egypt,

I have to ask: I have been to Egypt a number of times when I lived in Europe, and I have NEVER seen a topless beach there. So where exactly do they have topless beaches in Egypt? I am assuming in one of the resort towns in the Sinai, but which ones? I know Egyptians practice a more moderate to liberal version of Islam, but it is still not liberal enough to allow public nudity anywhere, not even for foreigners.

I just want to make sure I am in the right spot next time I am there

P.S. you do have a beautiful country and Egyptians are pretty cool people if I may say