Civilization and rule of law are anti-nature right? So if the poor masses who have nothing rise up violently and kill you to take your food and shelter, it is just nature at work right?
The number of children who are in our education system is incredibly small. They are few in number and only located in a handful of states. The children are often not illegal, and having a better educated work force hardly seems a waste. You support your convicted felons pampered rich, and badmouth others who are working hard, but and then complain about spending money on education all day.
Look up the facts. Public education of illegal immigrant children is currently costing California $7.7 billion a year. It is costing Texas $4.7 billion a year. That's not millions, thats billions. I don't know how you can say that's a small cost.
I'd rather give billions to the education of children then tax breaks to corporations, oil companies or the wealthiest one percent.
Do you lack any short term memory or do you have a split personality. You just advocated the termination of the education of illegal immigrants. How about cutting the U.S. military budget in half to further fund space exploration?
How much is 4.4 billion, not million but BILLION, relative to the amount of money Texas spends/collects else where? That sounds like a lot, but if the state spends 200 billion total that's only 2.2% of it's spending, not so much and I have a feeling it's a lot less than that. How much is it relative to the taxes collected in Texas? What are those numbers in California? People make it seem like a lot, but it doesn't make much sense when there are INDIVIDUALS out there worth many times those amounts. I admit I don't know anything about this stuff, but do the people complaining about it know as much as they think they know? Also, how many people hate it when people say that they're using MY TAX MONEY on so and so projects? Damn that annoys the **** out of me. Like with the Katrina cards, individually how much taxes did the people complaining about them pay? Does it add on to taxes paid? Or is it just something the state takes out of money that's already there? And really how much is whatever amount they got in cards supposed to help when they've just lost everything? So if someone wants to buy $300 dollars worth of Girls Gone Wild DVDs who cares? I might have paid a fraction of a cent for them, no? And it gave someone who lost it all a few hours of joy.
Once again, where did anyone advocate giving tax breaks to corporations or "the wealthiest 1 percent"? You're really trying to take this off topic aren't you? Now that you got called on it you conveniently just skip over that. And you're right we should terminate public education for illegal immigrants. We should terminate illegal immigration period. The whole education subject stemmed from my reply to this: I have no problem with funding for education or for sick children, but they should be the children of legal residents or citizens. But we should not be forking out the billions of dollars per year that we do to educate the children of illegal immigrants. If Mexico wants to reimburse us the tens of billions spent yearly on educating their children, fine. If not, we have more worthwhile needs for our resources than spending billions each year on a segment of students which (A) Shouldn't be here in the first place, and (B) 21 percent of them drop out of high school anyways after clogging up our educational system for years (they are really dedicated to making the most of the education we are offering them right?). Any one of you that supports handling illegal immigration in this manner is a goddamned fool.
nick lampson got more money for NASA than tom delay. an illegal immigrant pays just as much to the state of texas in taxes as anyone else of his income bracket. so why shouldn't they get the services?
Uncle Ruckus, you live somewhere around the Houston area, how do you control yourself? You can't stay away from illegal immigrants, people who you believe are illegal immigrants, people who you think should be illegal even though they were born here, you see them everyday, how do you deal with that? Steve Francis haters, imagine if you couldn't go 2.5 miles without seeing a few Steve Francises, and knowing that there are thousands more Steve Francises all over the city, and millions more in your country. Then when you see them all you can think about is the billions of your tax dollars that goes to their education, vacinations, health, etc. Wouldn't that drive you guys crazy? That's what Uncle Ruckus goes through everyday, so much so that he had to bring them up in a thread that has nothing to do with illegal immigration.
many of those children of undocumented immigrants are citizens. unless you want to shred the constitution your argument is clearly unconstitutional and probably against the equal protection clause.
Of course he did, as JSC was located in his district at the time, he was pretty much forced to fight his own party's repeated attempts to slash NASA's budget. You can't possibly be that naive. If you're referring to the FICA that is collected, that goes to the federal government, not the states, which are responsible for education. Illegals lag far behind when it comes to property & school taxes compared to their drain on the system. Do a search and you'll see. The 7.7 billion yearly that California pays for illegal immigrant education? Only 1.8 billion is estimated to be contributed via property & school taxes by illegals. Now what is 7.7 minus 1.8? Hmmm.
so the only democrat in question whos track record matters is a shining bright advertisement for his candidacy. and incidentally he's running for the district now. whats your point? the states are primarily responsible for education. not the federal government. plus federal taxes are progressive. so if anything undocumented workers would probably get EITC. illegals pay as much property and sales tax as anyone in their income bracket would. secondly instead of getting numbers out of your ass whenever you drop figures it'd be nice to see where they came from. oh wait i know. it came from fair. and ironically that study is anything but fair. blaming immigrants for not paying enough is ludicrous. they can't help the fact that they are poor and simply dont make enough to pay as much as ken lay might have. secondly if you deport them someone else theoretically is going to take those jobs and its not like they'll make considerably more. there are many aspects you obviously are overlooking. for example the masses of undocumented immigrants come in their prime working years. they pay tons into social security via fake IDs which go unclaimed. all the while we didn't spend any money on educating them. they are a net benefit.
Holy crikey. Aces and I actually agree on something. I don't know all of the numbers but common sense tells you that illegal immigrants do not as much in taxes as citizens and legal immigrants. Where do you get this term undocumented worker? Is it the new PC term for being illegal? I guess undocumented doesn't sound nearly as bad as illegal. Lets assume for a moment that for some unknown reason that they pay as much as a citizen or any person that is under a legal status in our country. THEY ARE STILL HERE ILLEGALLY. YOU DO NOT DESERVE ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU BROKE THE LAW OF THE USA. There are MANY people that have jumped through all of the stupid ass hoops that our country deems necessary for them to be here legally. Why then, should illegals be entitled to a damn thing? It is not ludicrous. Why should they get an education at a discount? Do they deserve a discount just because they had a ****ty life in another country? Uh, no. If you don't like the situation that you are in, either apply to the US legally or go be apart of the solution in your own country. Do not come to the US and take advantage of our system. I hope they do get deported and that someone else, that is legal, gets their job. Masses? Uh, didn't you just ask Aces not to pull numbers out of his ass? Masses has the word ass in it and I think that is where you are getting this figure because I've never seen a study where the figure "masses" was used. While I don't have any "masses" studies to back my claims up, I'd be shocked if even a quarter of undocumented illegals are contributing to Social Security or any other income tax system. The whole point of coming to the US is that they get higher wages, NO ****ING TAXES, and can take advantage of our social systems. The thousands, yes THOUSANDS, of dollars that I give EVERY MONTH pays for this bull****. Try living with someone that has to go through our INS system and see how you would feel if the people doing it illegally were suddenly given amnesty. Try going and sitting in an INS room for 3 hours just so she can get one thumb print and a digital picture taken that takes less than 2 minutes. On top of that, try having a son that has problems reading and the GOD DAMN ****ING SCHOOL SYSTEM WON'T ****ING HELP HIM BUT THE MOTHER ****ING ILLEGALS HAVE SPECIAL ****ING PROGRAMS TO TEACH THEM ENGLISH. It will make your blood boil. This is what I pay for? BULL****!!! You cannot ship their sorry asses back fast enough as far as I am concerned.
i like the term. thats why i use it. they do pay as much in local taxes as anyone else does. its not for an unknown reason. its the fact that your immigration status has little to do with paying the majority of your taxes. the only taxes you might get away with are payroll ones. and as the examples below show most undocumented immigrants pay social security. and also income taxes are progressive so they'll probably have a net benefit by paying those. blaming them for not paying enough taxes because the tax system doesn't require them to pay is ludicrous. a capitalist economy will almost always have some unemployment. as tex and company can tell you currently our 5% unemployment is probably the best it gets under our current capitalist system. deporting people doesn't lower that much. so it'll only decrease jobs. plus i'd submit that its actually way more beneficial because the job skills that these immigrants provide are complimentary for the most part. only a small percentage of people that are without high school diplomas are affected. and their wages have stayed constant in the past 10-15 years. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year. nyt Reliable numbers are hard to find, but researchers generally agree that 50 to 60 percent of illegal immigrants nationwide work for employers who withhold income taxes and Social Security and Medicare payments from their paychecks. The authors of the Urban Institute study assumed 55 percent do. post The fact that illegal immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes. here yes. no one else has had the experiences you have. oh actually its not called INS anymore. its ICE. perhaps you should look into it some more? and while your at it have a beer. chill out a bit. god knows you need it. it might even make your drivel a bit more logical and credible. just maybe. lessen the rants perhaps.
Whatever floats your boat. Last time I looked, payroll taxes can be quite a bit of money. I'd give my left nut to not have to pay any payroll taxes. If they filed taxes at the end of the year like everyone else they wouldn't slip through the cracks. If I decided to not pay, I guarantee I'd get a letter from the IRS. Who brought up unemployment? I didn't and even if I did, I don't mind part of the taxes that I pay to go towards helping unemployed LEGAL citizens and immigrants. I also bet that if you were apart of that small percent of people that were affected, you'd be pretty pissed about it. That's fantastic. There is always a silver lining to every ****ty situation I guess. Did you even read the article? I did. Here's something that you left out. I don't know about you but I'd have a whole hell of a lot more money if I could pay 50% less in taxes each year. Where can I sign up for this discount? It definitely comes as news to me. Thanks for that lesson. Actually it is called USCIS and its run by Homeland Security but most people understand the term INS and I like it so I use it. And no, I won't chill out because this is something that we deal with everyday and it really pisses me off. We have spent a lot of time and money for her to have all of her paperwork right and pay all of the fees. We have had many worried filled nights wondering if she is going to get to stay in the country LEGALLY because she would actually do the RIGHT thing and go home if the government told her that she had to. She would do that because SHE RESPECTS THE USA AND HER LAWS. She wants to do things right. Why should people like her be penalized? Why should people doing the wrong thing be given amnesty? It is ridiculous. I also get incredibly angry when I see my son struggling and his school doesn't give a ****. His mother and I have had numerous meetings with his teachers and the administration with little help, ideas, and progress. It isn't from lack of work or motivation on our part. Unfortunately, we are not teachers and no matter how hard we have tried, we do not know how to help him properly. We had faith that our public school system would not fail him. Remember, no child left behind? It's funny that his school has special programs to teach kids how to speak English but God forbid they give Collin any extra help to get caught up. Their only solution was to hold him back but they wouldn't even do that in the end because he passed his standardized testing. So basically he was screwed all around. Now on top of all of the tax money that I pay for an education for my son, I'm spending an additional $1000 a month of specialized tutoring to make sure he does ok. Luckily, I have the means to do that. What happens with families (legal families) that do not make the kind of money I make and cannot provide that kind of service for their children? I have a funny feeling that they are just screwed. I bet I know something that would help them out though. How about they pay about 50% less in taxes? I bet that sure would come in handy!
Look, i'm sick of seeing you throw around all the income and sales taxes that illegals contribute. Firstly, not all illegals use a fake SS, alot of the illegal immigrant economy is in cash. Secondly, the income & sales taxes collected are not going to the state for education expenses. The only ones that pay property & school taxes are people that own homes. It's hard to find numbers for this, but I did find that slightly less than 50 percent of immigrants own homes, versus 70 percent for U.S citizens. Now what is the percentage of illegal immigrants that own homes? It has got to be far less than 50 percent because even the most hardheaded of you lot would not argue that a legal immigrant is far more likely to purchase a home than an illegal immigrant. So for simplicity's sake let's say 40 percent (and I am being quite generous to you here, the actual number is probably much lower). So you've got roughly 6 out of 10 illegal immigrants that are not paying property or school taxes. Throw in the fact that illegal immigrants have far more children than the rest of the population and it is easy to see how states like California are spending $7.7 billion a year to educate illegal immigrant children and only receiving $1.8 billion a year from said immigrants.
im gonna ignore most of your post because its mostly drivel and just one big rant of a man thats pissed off and can't think logically. i dont see how she's penalized. i dont see why everything is relative. and just because not everyone feels the need to pull out a family or personal card doesn't mean you are the only one who had immigrants in their family. oh and im sure people who are undocumented have no problem sleeping at night. everytime they get stopped by the cops or try to get a job. im sure they sleep very nicely during those times. the comprehensive immigration packages that have been proposed would allow those who are here legally to apply first and the undocumented workers would be processed afterwards. no one is penalized. can you please explain to me why payroll taxes matter so much in terms of education? go find statistics that show how much money the federal government puts into education. and notice where it goes. most of public education is funded at the state level. undocumented immigrants pay those. i sincerely hope the best for your family. however i fail to see why everything is a zero sum game in your eyes. and you are absolutely right. no child left behind is a joke. but you should refrain from your anger at poor indigent souls who have risked their life to seek opportunity and leave it for our officials who have a crappy educational funding system. and perverse incentives.
as those numbers i quoted above show at least a majority use fake SS which lets the government get that money and not even disburse it. secondly everyone that lives in a home pays income tax directly or indirectly. and many native wasps live in apartment complexes they dont own as well. so they pay property taxes indirectly just like 'native' folks. are you kidding me? are you really that befuddled? just because one doesn't own a home doesn't mean they dont pay property taxes. the property tax is added onto the rent is it not? can you take a econ101 class? again. you are quoting the fair study. i dont trust them. however i dont have any other numbers on california. ps: if those children are born in america they are citizens. constitution. should i quote it since like tom delay and the texas republican party...you seem to have an issue grasping it.
