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DEI must DIE

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Dec 16, 2023.

  1. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    I wouldn't know! I was commenting on his, you know, words and statements, not on his own race.
    God knows people of any race can pander to white butt hurt and even build entire careers (or internet personas) off of it. A booming industry! :D Before I turned it off, he was talking about how the white pilots have been doing such a great job, LOL.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Discrimination based on race is not "white butt hurt".
     
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  3. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Okay, I shouldn't have dipped a toe in here (but wanted to see OS's links). I was calling Schneider's not-funny bit an appeal to white butt hurt in the audience, and he seemed to land a few jokes accordingly. That's what it sounded like to me.

    I was not talking about "discrimination based on race." He pretended to decry such but then praised the great work of white pilots. (Like, why, LOL. I haven't noticed the race of my pilots recently.) This pilot stuff is such a red herring but it's gotten your group some good mileage, for sure.

    Anyway, won't bother y'all further. March on. The anti-woke warpath is long, and hard. (RIP Ron, e.g.)
     
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  4. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Routine discrimination sounds exaggerated, but I have no idea how often employers discriminate when hiring nowadays. Discrimination against minorities used to be a huge issue. I don't think it's as big of an issue now, but I'm sure there are still biases that contribute to the problem, even if unintentional and not explicitly breaking the law. One of the main goal of DEI is to address these biases. I know people like Musk and politicians have turned the whole thing upside down and claim DEI is discrimination against white males. Sure, there may be some cases of that, but what I see is another example of claiming everything wrong is Wokism. The crying wolf that everything 'bad' is because of DEI and the idea that 'only white men' can do a good job (yeah, I know some don't mean it this way, but it still comes off that way to many) is the same tactic pulled with wokism. Personally, my default is to assume inaccuracy (like confusing DEI with affirmative action) or generalization when there aren't good links to at least some respectful, somewhat non-partisan articles.
     
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  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    as luck would have it--this link should work for everyone

    DEI Is Worth Saving From Its Excesses
    Companies should root out discrimination and hostile training sessions and focus on optimizing talent.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/dei-is...mp56zh8t07s&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

    excerpt:

    A war is raging over “diversity, equity, and inclusion.” Opponents and supporters of DEI have very different ideas about what it is. “DEI is racist because reverse racism is racism,” hedge-fund manager Bill Ackman tweets. “Good businesses look where others don’t, to find the employees that will put your business in the best possible position to succeed,” businessman Mark Cuban counters.

    Both men have a point. Some of what happens under the DEI banner is truly objectionable, even illegal—hiring, promotion and admissions standards under which race trumps qualifications, training sessions that create a hostile environment for whites. But as companies, universities and other organizations weed out these practices, they should be careful that the parts of DEI that the majority of us agree on don’t become collateral damage. DEI as talent optimization is good for disadvantaged groups, good for organizations that embrace it, and good for America.

    DEI at its best is about developing talent, measuring it in a fair way, selecting the best people for important roles, and finding hidden talent in a world where not everyone has an equal chance to exhibit their abilities. This approach focuses on overcoming individual disadvantages rather than on race. Its beneficiaries won’t suffer the stigma that comes with unfair preferences.

    Talent optimization has implications from preschools to boardrooms—but strategies change as people grow older and have opportunities to prove themselves. What they do with these opportunities provides part of the signal we are trying to measure, serving as indicators of their underlying ability; when people lack these opportunities, we are left guessing.

    To start with childhood, no 4-year-old has done anything to “merit” a better preschool than another. For that reason, efforts to help children who are falling behind, to improve failing schools, and to close racial gaps should be a high priority. As Steven Levitt and I showed in a study, there’s a racial achievement gap by age 4, but it’s explained by parental income and occupation. I have long challenged independent private schools in the Northeast to see each class of prekindergartners they admit as part of their core DEI strategy, rather than wait until high school.
    more at the link
     
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  6. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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  7. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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  8. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    they’ve been passing on qualified black people since the dawn of this country simply because they were black…not a peep about that

    Where is all the Asian outrage about legacy admissions? Nowhere to be found

    this country will blame everything on black people

    now this evil POS Charlie Kirk dares to open his mouth and say that about black pilots

    white pilots been crashing planes for YEARS…I never heard anything about the qualifications of white pilots

    there is some pure wickedness in this country
     
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  9. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    I don't care about the skin colour of my pilot, just about their qualification (and sanity...there was this crazy case in Germany where one insane pilot killed everyone on board...murder suicide).
     
  10. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    there's a couple of different threads this could go in I suppose

    Open Letter Recommendations to the Cornell University Board of Trustees

    https://ivyexcellence.org/news/open-letter-cornell-board-of-trustees

    excerpt:

    Dear Chairman Kayser and Cornell Board of Trustees:

    It is with a heavy heart that I outline this request to you today. As a proud Cornell alumnus, donor, Member of the Board of Trustees (Emeritus), and Counselor to the President, it is my opinion that Cornell must abandon its misguided commitment to DEI because it has yielded not excellence but disgrace.

    I am proud to count myself one of several generations of Lindseths who are Cornell alumni and invested donors, but I am alarmed by the diminished quality of education offered lately by my alma mater because of its disastrous involvement with DEI policies that have infiltrated every part of the university.
    more at the link
     
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    If I recall they pilot was a white German so certainly DEI had nothing to do with that.
     
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  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I’m not going to claim to speak for all Asians but I’ve been critical of legacy admissions.
     
  13. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    u might be critical about it, but overall, the silence is deafening…basically not a peep

    but let’s blame black people and act like they’re all unqualified for an Ivy League institution and are the main ones taking up spots…it’s unreal
     
  14. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Probably because they want the kids of their kids to get in :D.
     
  15. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    black people want the same thing, yet for centuries were not even allowed in these spaces simply because of their skin color

    less likely to be hired if u have a “black sounding name”…literally told your natural hair, the hair you’re born with, is “unprofessional”

    not one peep
     
  16. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    All of that is totally wrong, I am with you.

    The best society is a colour-blind society. People should advance based on merit. Prejudice is bad.

    In my company, we are about 300 people, from about 60 countries. Probably all kinds of sexual identifications/preferences, but that's none of an employer's business, really. What matters is whether someone does a good job and is a good colleague.

    I would say there should be things done to create more equality of opportunity, more so, the younger the person is.

    But one can't force equality of outcome (in other words, nobody should be hired just because of the colour of their skin - but of course, nobody should NOT be hired because of the colour of their skin either).
     
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  17. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    unfortunately, this will never be a color blind society

    white-only water fountains was a thing during my dad’s lifetime

    they had to pass laws in several states just these past 3-4 years called Crown Acts to stop discrimination of black people based off their natural hair

    Standard equations for estimating glomerular filtration rate (eGFR) employ race multipliers, systematically inflating eGFR for Black patients. Such inflation is clinically significant because eGFR thresholds of 60, 30, and 20 ml/min/1.73m2 guide kidney disease management. Racialized adjustment of eGFR in Black Americans may thereby affect their clinical care.

    The use of race in medicine implies that we are physiologically different based on our outward, physical characteristics. However, race is not based in genetics, nor in physiology, but is entirely a social construct based on characteristics, physical locations, and behavioral patterns.

    We have incorporated race into multiple clinical equations despite unclear evidence for doing so. We also recognize that the effects of racism and other social determinants of health, rather than race itself, are responsible for disparities in health outcomes.

    We highlight in this paper the use of race-based glomerular filtration rate (GFR). It has been suggested that the current race-based algorithm incorporating GFR is delaying diagnosis and treatment of worsening chronic kidney disease.

    and just recently

    https://www.kidneyfund.org/all-about-kidneys/tests/egfr/egfr-test-change-removal-race-calculation

    Changes have been made to the eGFR (estimated glomerular filtration rate) calculation.

    Previously Black race was used in the eGFR calculation along with age, sex, and body type. However, in 2021, a task force led by the National Kidney Foundation (NKF) and the American Society of Nephrology (ASN) announced recommendations to remove Black race as a factor in the eGFR calculation. While labs have made this shift to update their lab value reports, you should check with your doctor to make sure they are not using race-based equations.

    u can only imagine the amount of negative health outcomes for black people that were based on that equation

    https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/...e-friend-posed-as-owner.319032/#post-14543964

    [​IMG]

    it’s the ones who have historically benefited the most by far by “seeing color” and continue to do so that prevent this country from being color blind

    then when a company hires more of any sort of minority, especially a black minority, they are “woke,” the black person isn’t qualified, and we must do away with diversity



    b
    ut when black people get passed on en-masse for having a black sounding name, “unprofessional” natural hair, or whatever else, not a peep from these people
     
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  18. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Many corporate DEI is involved in debiasing the workplace. Here are examples of how to debias.

    "Blind evaluation procedures have been proven to significantly increase the likelihood that women musicians are chosen for orchestras, and they are employed by a few companies."



    When performance trumps gender bias: Joint vs. separate evaluation.
    https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2016-45869-001

    Abstract
    Gender bias in the evaluation of job candidates has been demonstrated in business, government, and academia, yet little is known about how to overcome it. Blind evaluation procedures have been proven to significantly increase the likelihood that women musicians are chosen for orchestras, and they are employed by a few companies. We examine a new intervention to overcome gender bias in hiring, promotion, and job assignments: an “evaluation nudge” in which people are evaluated jointly rather than separately regarding their future performance. Evaluators are more likely to base their decisions on individual performance in joint than in separate evaluation and on group stereotypes in separate than in joint evaluation, making joint evaluation the profit-maximizing evaluation procedure. Our work is inspired by findings in behavioral decision research suggesting that people make more reasoned choices when examining options jointly rather than separately and is compatible with a behavioral model of information processing. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2017 APA, all rights reserved


    7 Practical Ways to Reduce Bias in Your Hiring Process (hbr.org)

    Research shows that the hiring process is impartial and unfair. Unconscious racism, ageism, and sexism play a big role in who gets hired. The good news is there are steps you can take to reduce unconscious biases. Here are some strategies: (1) Simplify. Standardize the process by seeking out software and other analytical tools that bring structure to hiring procedures. (2) Rework job descriptions. Experiment with the wording of your job listings by removing adjectives associated with a particular gender. (3) Give a work sample test. Tests that mimic the kinds of tasks the candidate will be doing in the job are the best indicators of future performance. (4) Standardize interviews. Ask each candidate the same set of defined questions, and use an interview scorecard to grade the answers. (5) Set diversity goals. Leaders should track how well they’re doing against targets. This encourages others in the organization to keep equality top of mind.
     
  19. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Reducing bias is good, but introducing new racism to trump old racism is not good.
     
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  20. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    DEI must DIE - Motto of those who have no interest in ending discrimination . . . only want to make sure they stay benefitting from discrimination

    Rocket River
     

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