Deficit reduction panel releases debt proposal plan

Even CNN has a better messaging apparatus than the White House's. It'll totally be another HW Bush moment in 2012.

"I will not raise taxes for the middle class!"

Republicans bulldozed Obama's bluff.

 

Good start. We need a flatter income tax system, and much lower corporate income taxes, with fewer social-engineering deductions.

 

The GOP delivers for their key constituency. (Remember when Bush called the wealthy "my base"?) Wimpy Obama hurts his constituency. Is this anyway to win elections?

Do you think Obama used to get beat up on the playground as a kid?

Only discipline keeps me supporting this wimp at all.

 

I'd bet you are more tired of Obama being a push over to the Republicans than you are about this individual vote.

 

Do you actually think people will blame the Republicans for the tax cuts ending?

Republicans want tax cuts on 100% of Americans to be extended.
Democrats want tax cuts on 98% of Americans.

If Democrats push to deny the tax cuts on that remaining 2% of Americans, then 100% of Americans will lose their tax cut because of this. Do you really think Americans (keep in mind that these are the same Americans that support the TEA Party, Republicans, etc.) will see this as the Republicans fault since they wanted tax cuts for 100% of Americans?

Don't get me wrong; I agree with ending the tax cuts. My taxes would go up, but that's OK because the deficit would go down. However, I don't think my (our) view is shared amongst the majority of Americans, so I don't think the Democrats will be able to spin it that way and win votes. If anything, they'll lose more.

 

Those are good reasons and I can understand why the Admin. might not want to pick a fight on this when there are other fights, like keeping Health Care. Still this might be one that if the Admin. held their guns they might win. While Obama ran on raising no middle class taxes taxes are a bigger issue for Republicans. If Obama calls the Admin's bluff and lets the tax cuts expire without a compromise that lowers taxes for most Americans it might hurt Republicans more. Further in showdowns between the President and Congress usually the President wins. Its easier for the President to run by railing about a "do nothing Congress" than the converse.

 

Dreaming. When the Democrats didn't push through an extension when they had majorities this became the political reality. Letting the tax cuts expire on everybody would have been political suicide for Obama and his administration knew it.

 

I don't think this is dreaming. Clinton faced a similar situation in 1995 that led to a government shutdown. That ended up far worse for Congress than it did for Clinton.

 

Memo to Democrats:

GROW A PAIR.

 

exactly, and the stupidity is you lost the majority anyway. unbelievable.

 

Compromise -- real compromise -- is crucial. In that spirit, here are my thoughts (fluid suggestions, not written in stone):

1) Eliminate the cap on Social Security deductions, extending them to every dollar earned, including capital gains.

2) Remove Social Security funds from the General Fund to prevent government from constantly raiding funds set aside for retirement of current and future workers. In the same vein, end double dipping -- a retiree can choose the best paying fund.

3) Federal employee salaries should be cut 10% across the board (20% for IRS employees! -- just kidding).

4) Lending guidelines should be established -- perhaps three times the gross income of family annual income for housing, matching gross annual income for automobiles and one quarter of gross annual income for credit cards.

5) Outlawing omnibus bills, riders and earmarks. Every bill should stand on its own merits. Certain items like grants should be lumped together for votes on the first day of each new season (spring, summer, fall and winter) so that each grant can be sorted as superfluous or legitimate research).

6) A tax on non-U.S. employees working outside the United States for companies generating the majority of their revenues inside the U.S. should be created and levied.

7) 100% of revenues generated by a 10 cent per gallon gasoline tax and a penny per ounce of liquid oil products should be dedicated towards retirement of the national debt. This fund, like the Social Security fund, cannot be "borrowed" to pay for anything else.

8) The Bush tax cuts should be extended to every earner (not necessarily wage alone) making less than $1 million annually. Tax shelters -- with the exception of children and their college funds, up to a reasonable amount -- should be eliminated over the next 10 years.

 

I like how maintaining current rates is characterized as a tax cut.

 

Yeah it's cumulative, but this is really an outrageously ridiculous cave. A great chance to make the republicans look simultaneously

1) against lower taxes for almost all americans
2) in the hands of the rich and
3) not serious about deficit reduction.

And he blew it. Massively blew it. Wiretapping, Guantanamo, DADT, public option...

Too many.

 

Since they are temporary and therefore must be renewed it is another tax cut.

Don't pretend like this was some kind of permanent legislation.

 

I think it's plausible actually. Republicans have been brazenly unwilling to compromise - heck, they've gloated and ran on it. And here Obama can say "well, I would like to address the deficit, they did not. I offered a compromise and they rejected it. I cannot in good conscience ignore this problem." Like someone else said, this was basically Clinton's tactic.

Look at the polls - congresscritters are universally loathed. Obama still has some popularity. Use it.

 

The Bush tax cuts were supposed to be temporary. The "current rates" without that "exception" would be much higher.

BTW, I forgot one important item to my list above. Each church, synagogue, mosque or other entity claiming religious exemption, should pay a 10% tithe to the government -- with half going to the federal government and half going to the state government -- on their annual revenues / net worth if they choose to enter the political forum, either from the pulpit or by organization.

 

Obama might could have mixed in his plan during the times he was force feeding healthcare down our throats.

Way to go douche.

 

I pretty mush agree with everything you mentioned. I really find this one interesting. How much could this bring in annually?

 

Another vote here for letting taxes go up. It might be a little premature with the economy not yet back, but the deficit is a concern too.

Doubt it.

[rquoter]Homer: America, take a good look at your beloved candidates. They're nothing but hideous space reptiles. [unmasks them]
[audience gasps in terror]
Kodos: It's true, we are aliens. But what are you going to do about it? It's a two-party system; you have to vote for one of us.
[murmurs]
Man1: He's right, this is a two-party system.
Man2: Well, I believe I'll vote for a third-party candidate.
Kang: Go ahead, throw your vote away.[/rquoter]

I might run with that if the Republicans' didn't just drink Obama's milkshake in the propaganda battle for the midterms. They managed to convince people that the the stimulus Bush crafted was Obama's pet project, and moreover that it was a waste of money. They convinced people that Obama forced a healthcare bill on them even though they knew it was coming before Obama was elected. They convinced people that Obama was far-left and even a socialist even though his major reform projects (cap-and-trade, insurance exchange, bail-out, stimulus) all rely on leveraging the market. If Democrats hadn't just proven themselves as completely defenseless in the face of a well-coordinated Republican propaganda front, I might be willing to take my chances on that.

 

Yes, let all the taxes go up - that would be ok.

But we're in the middle of a ****ing deficit. The Tea Party idea that cutting government revenues is somehow going to lead to a significant reduction in spending is deluded. It will just put us deeper into debt.

The right idea would be to cut spending AND let these tax cuts expire, but no one's going to get re-elected on that - so we're ****ed.