I think what most posters here are mistaking is the perception and past of what JVG did vs the reality of what JVG did in last year's playoffs. Read my post and watch the tapes. I love a good argument and valid disagreement, but too many posts here have been misinformed and I'm just trying to spread the truth of how things went down.
I hope we find a way just to gear it towards Yao's strength which is blocking shots or altering shots inside the paint.... I don't think its to our advantage for him to come out and chase speedy guards. I agree that Adelman sees what his teams strengths and weaknesses are and works his system around them, whereas JVG is more unflexible almost to the point of being a Captain on the Titanic. JVG will go down with his plan no matter what. We can have Yao show out in the perimeter, but most of the time, we should just keep him in the paint and find another way to defend those pick and rolls.
Kim, great posts. I agree that the best way to defend the PnR is showing hard by the big man. That's why JVG used it most of the time. JVG is a great defensive coach. He knows how it works. HOWEVER, this is the thing. Showing hard has its draw back on other aspect of the game. The most obvious, observed by you and many other posters here, is that it takes a lot of energy out of the big man. Yao is never great at his stamina. Tiring him out is not good. The second draw back is observed by Adelman. It increases the risk of Yao taking more fouls. Both this and the first draw back result in reduced PT for Yao, which is clearly a very bad thing for the team, especially at the offensive end. A lot of people do not realize that there is always a trade off between defense and offense. When you strengthen your defense, it most likely will weaken your offense. Basketball is not football. You have the same guys playing at both ends, and there is no stopping play for the transition. Same thing on the other end. Adelman admitted that if you have a good motion offense, you don't get to play transition defense as well as if you just station 3 spot up shooters. So you sacrifice your transition defense a bit in order to have a good offense. Okay, I digressed. A third draw back of showing hard is defensive rebounding. You leave the big guy outside leaving the basket open for the other team's offensive rebounding. So it's pick your poison. The PnR is one of the most effective offensive play in basketball. If you have a good ball handler who can score and pass and a big guy who can shoot, it is extremely difficult to defend. That's why I don't understand why the Rockets didn't use more of a TMac-Yao PnR. It should be lethal.
Kim, What your are failing to realize is that having Yao stay back, and having someone else pick up the screener as he comes to the elbow (a little zone etc) would allow the team to both cover the pick and roll and keep Yao down in the paint. If you read my post, Yao was getting beat at the elbow (jumper by Boozer) and on the roll by Boozer...... ALL SERIES long.....JVG asking Yao to try to cover Boozer....big mismatch for Utah. Personally, I also like showing hard on the high side, especially late, but Yao would probably get bumped into by the PG and called for a blocking foul. DD
Oh WTF ever, how was that defense in the playoffs, when they weren't beating up on the Atlantas of the NBA? As the Utah series went on, the Utah Jazz offensive efficiency went up, you know why because they KNEW what Houston was going to do and adapted to it. Top 5 defense....big fricken deal....wins baby...WINS in the playoffs, that is what matters. I am grateful that a new plan of action is in place. DD
its the nba...everyone knows what everyone is going to do. Thats not much of an excuse if you ask me. Rockets knew they were going to pick and roll. Everyone knew stockton and malone were going to do it. Everyone knows PJ is going to use the triangle. Everyones going to know that the rockets will be using adelmans offense. etc etc.
Good posts Kim. I don't expect you to make much headway becuase people have already decided what they saw and won't deviate from it no matter how much evidence is put forth, but good posts nonetheless
Educational post only. Everyone, please read this column: http://www.82games.com/pelton10.htm Every Play Counts: The Phoenix Pick-and-Roll He did forget one defense, going over or "fighting through" a pick, but the only player I know who can do that consistently in the league now is Hinrich. Before someone bursts out with "but you can play a zone", understand that even in a zone defense with the P&R, one player will be defending the screener, and one player will be defending the ballhandler. Who those players are will be determined by position on the floor instead of player position.
Let's wait to judge this change by the results. Without a doubt it will cost us baskets but it depends mainly on how good the other team's PG is. We will have a problem against better teams.
Relatively small sample size, obviously, but I'm down with primarily "showing/hedging" or going under, depending on who the opponent is, with a switch down the stretch to switch defense. It's certainly interesting to note even the Pistons weren't switching the whole game. Clear it takes something out of your players.
I remember this from a years ago in the Kings-Lakers WCF series...The Kings had alot of things going well for them in that series, they were a more exburant team than L.A., younger, and deep roster of scorers....but one big advantage they had was the PNR. One reason why Mr. Bibby had big series against the Lakers, was Shaq's unwillingness to come out defend the PNR or guard Bibby. It either took him away from the basket and left the Lakers vulnerable to the basket...because had not other great post defenders. Or let, Bibby have a number of uncontested jumpshots. Which proved the chances of Kings finals appearance. The Lakers also had same problem with the Utah PNR, years earlier.... We can use this strategy against most opponents, but think against quicker jump shooting PNR point guards...he is going to have to come out to the wing....or we could use another player to defend if Yao is not effective against if we see come in you could back off of into a quick zone. Or use quick and hard trap. I don't think it will be as big a problem as most of you makeit out to be...the Rockets will be just fine on defense.... too much preoccupation too soon.....
This also brings up another good idea....the Shaq and Kobe Lakers also did alot of this (especially against the Kings)....but I know most people will think it's foolish or crazy..................................................watch Derek Fisher, Bruce Bowen, Ginobili, Nash, Rodman, and etc. flo......ppp.....ing. Whoever the pg is can start taking using the art of flopping...it does work from time to time, if it didn't .... i don'think you see so many players using it.
Great post, Kim!! Great post also, Easy!! You both hit the points nicely, and yes, eventually it is a trade-off. I also want to mention that Yao can stay home (around the basket) ONLY against teams that have a big man who can't score from outside. So, Utah is a bad (or a great counter) example that Yao cannot stay home all the time against all teams. As we know, Utah has Okur who can shoot from outside, so he never has to come inside at all, which means Yao can't just stay inside when playing Utah. Kim, what you said as Yao was in no man's land was because Okur was NOT inside, so Yao was basically defending no one. That said, Utah is the exception. Against most other team, someone big has to defend Yao, and that someone usually can't shoot from outside, and hence has to try to get inside. This is when Adelman's plan works very well, even if the other team uses PnR. With most teams, Yao can simply slide around the basket, making sure the opponent's Center and the ball are blocked by his big body. If PnR happens, he won't be the one doing the switching, again because he will be guarding the inside, guarding the ball from getting to the other Center. The other Center could post up, but that doesn't usually work against Yao. Again, this only works with teams whose big men can't shoot from outside, which means most teams. Agains the elite Western teams, only Utah, and to a smaller degree, Phoenix, have big men who have some range. Any other team I am missing?
Utah: Boozer and Okur. Phoenix: Is very iffy, because Stoudemire doesn't get most of his points from outside shots...he hasn't perfected, yet. And I believe in few seasons he will probably move back to PF once the Suns realize he is not great post player. That's pretty much it...I know Mihm with the Lakers was sorta of jump shooter, but he has been a ghost for almost two seasons. That's about it....Yao is against likes Elson, Oberto, Diop, Camby, Brown, Bynum, Kaman, Gasol, and etc. The East....you many have Detroit....Wallace. Most big men (centers) stay near the paint, even the greatest centers, because it stops the other team from getting to paint and if the other center is someone like Shaq or Wilt...you want under the basket as much as possible.
I don't understand your solution. Look at the picture if you please. I'll probably follow up on this in the morning cause I'm tired. But, yeah, the PnR is run on the left side of the court with Deron and Boozer. So there will be 2 defenders, Yao and Rafer. If Yao is back near the bucket after Boozer picks off Rafer, Yao is playing 1 on 2 defense vs. Deron and a slashing Boozer. JVG did try to rotate Hayes/Battier from the weak side for help on Boozer when Yao was back, but it was unsuccessful b/c of the angle of Boozer's cut and his ability to get a head of steam going without the ball. Boozer shot tremendously from the outside (usually b/c he is open) but even more tremendously around the hoop, where he also got Yao in foul trouble. People talk about Yao picking up fouls on the perim...imo, he got really good at avoiding that. It is also imo that Yao gets into foul trouble when he's playing 1 on 2 defense vs Deron driving to him and Boozer diving in on his right. When Yao shows hard, the angle of the pass to Boozer is much more shallow, forcing Boozer wide, which allows Hayes or Battier to make it to the weakside to defend the shot. If a contested J is taken, Yao then dives back into the basket area for rebounding.
I can't believe this post was directly after mine. Does anybody watch the games?????? JVG totally changed his plan from the 05 playoffs to the 06 playoffs. Most of the time, Yao did not show at all. He camped in the defensive paint all series long.
I guess this is my main point that is purely opinion and I surely understand if you guys disagree: I believe that it is possible that the best defense out there would be very tiring for Yao. In this case, Yao might only play 25 to 30 minutes a game instead of 35 to 40. I don't mind making that offensive sacrifice of having Yao out if it means that the 25-30 mins he's in there, the Rockets are great on D. Honestly, while Yao was effective in that Utah series on offense, he was just totally abused on defense, and a lot of it was the PnR and him staying in the paint!!! That's what he did. I swear, he just stayed in the paint most of the time. I think if the Rockets can be productive on offense w/o Yao, some games vs some teams (like Utah), where Yao gets destroyed playing back on the PnR...in those games Yao has to show hard most of the time even if it costs Yao playing time because of energy. Just my opinion.
Kim, I don't think it's Rocket science (pardon the pun). Against some teams Yao can get away with playing back sometimes and this will save his energy. That's a welcome change vs. JVG IMO. But against teams with good PGs, he will have to show hard most of the time or we will get killed. In those games, Yao will have to suck it up or RA must give him more rest during the game.
