Declassified Torture Memos

Why does our constitution apply to everyone else but those who it was meant for?

 

Transparency is not innately virtuous, but in specific cases, like in this one, it is justified. If we were protecting, for example, the fact that certain buildings are more vulnerable then others to attacks, this would be reasonable. But using this same classification to protect what are nominally illegal (according to Geneva anyways) and shady dealings? Not so much. How can you justify not letting the American people know about this, especially since it has been at the center of controversy for so long? Contrary to your own perception, there are some who believe that torture is not an efficient tool and that in engaging in these actions, something is lost for America itself. Me, I don't give a s**t, if America wants to cross lines and punish whoever they want, so be it. I'm a cynic at heart though. There are some out there who still hold the cherished belief that America can be a great democracy. Who knows?

As for SERE, you linked me to a program that ironically enough, is one of the most controversial agents in this whole torture debate.

In July 2005 an article[4] in The New Yorker magazine alleged that psychologists who help direct the SERE curriculum have been advising the military at Guantanamo Bay detainment camp and other sites on interrogation techniques.

Now, going back to the point, besides the fact that SERE is run by one of the most efficient organizations in the world and the fact that they base their training on general generic environments rather then specifics and the fact that there is little to no data on success rates still leads me to doubt that you can tailor resistance programs to sleep deprivation. You can harden individuals by brainwashing them, for example, but I highly doubt that there is way you can protect against individual forms of torture on a specific basis. It's not like there are terrorist SERE academies waiting with glee for specifics on the torture; there's torture, they know in general what forms, just because you specify for them doesn't mean it will make them more efficient at protecting their agents from it. I mean, seriously, explain to me how you can tailor programs for sleep deprivation.

Nevermind that torture is a notoriously inefficient tool in the first place;

I mean seriously, seven years of torture, tons of captured Al-Queda and WHERE THE #()$*#$* IS OSAMA? Not to mention one of America's greatest coups in the war against terror came as a direct result of avoiding torture.

The Army spells it best.

Army Field Manual 34-52 Chapter 1

 

I went through SERE training......what's your point?

 

Tabling the fact that this was all public knowledge before this, yes I'm sure terrorists all around the world are now training for a set amount of hours of sleep deprivation...perhaps by renting the Playboy channel on PPV continuously, so that they feel like they'd be missing something if they fell asleep.

Go back to watching your "24" dvds, plz.

 

are you saying we torture american citizens in prisons on our soil? and if we do, those of us who oppose torture for suspected terrorists support this action?

what rights have we given the alleged terrorists that we as united states citizens do not have that have been written out in the constitution? please clarify what in the world you mean by this.

 

Your numbers might be a weee little bit off.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Was Waterboarded 183 Times in One Month

 

If this was so effective, why did they have to do it so many times? I can understand if it was more about revenge than about getting info, but I assume after 50 times they would get tired of doing it.

 

No secrets were given away. Pretty much everything there was already known.

 

and the irony is that the same people who authorize these methods, think democracy should be spread around the world, well at least to Iraq

 

It is sad and disgusting to see people who should be cheering for the U.S. to succeed advocating the waste of resources in fighting terror.

http://pbsmonitor.blogspot.com/2009/03/torture-of-abu-zabaida-obtained-no.html

I prefer to use what we know works, and to follow the U.S. ARMY field manual regarding torture.

TJ, basso, and others apparently just want to use torture, for torture's sake, since it clearly is not effective, and actually puts an end to effective methods of interrogation.

This has nothing to do with coddling anyone. It has everything to do with the U.S. fighting a successful war on terror.

 

That's what she said!

 

"Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created
But a dungeon like a sin
Requires naught but lockin' in
Of everything that's ever been
Look at hers
Look at him
That's what's the deal we're dealing in
That's what's the deal we're dealing in
That's what's the deal we're dealing in
That's what's the deal we're dealing in"

Frank Zappa

 

The torchum neva’ stops….

Go on, 'DEWLLA! Play dat lil' guitar one mo'gin!