[rquoter]You have orally informed us that you would not deprive Zubaydah of sleep for more than eleven days at a time and that you have previously kept him awake for 72 hours, from which no mental or physical harm resulted. [/rquoter] TPM [rquoter]The waterboard is simply a controlled acute episode, lacking the connotation of a protracted period of time generally given to suffering.[/rquoter] bybee it's incredibly disappointing that obama is completely abdicating his responsibility to enforce laws, even while saying we are a nation of laws. here are the four memos.
Honestly, if people would prefer to coddle terrorists that have vital information, as compared to doing whater the military/CIA think is important, then you need to have your head examined. Since when have we become so deeply concerned with the sleep schedules and well being of a freaking terrorist? Seriously? Philosophical musings about what is morally objectionable isn't an argument that the 9-11 victims can make from their coffins. There is a reason why we weren't attacked again in the US by al Qaeda after 9-11, folks. Be honest with yourselves. This move is typical Obama -- trying to further sling mud on the previous administration to make himself look better, all the while attempting to claim the moral high ground. Another publicity stunt, this time at the expense of our intelligence operations and our country. The man's selfishness and vanity know no limits.
Considering that waterboarding happened 5 times in 5 years to a handful of only the most prominent terrorists (who were on all the lists and very well known), I'd say your post is a little bit off target.
I'm sorry, but is there an argument here? It seems the only page in your playbook is "appeal to emotion". I understand that you're upset that the other team won a few months ago, but you're only making it harder on yourself with posts like these.
To be fair, his lack of substance, commitment to vitriol, and execrable point of view were in place long before Obama won.
He has been beating your party like a drum hasn't he? Pretty good for such an inexperienced amateur. Just wait till he gets the hang of this whole presidential stuff. At this rate, the mid-terms will present a further expansion of the Democratic control of Congress and the Obama train will shft into a higher gear. If you're not part of the solution, T_J, you're part of the problem. Get behind your president and support America like a true patriot.
Good god almighty!! You've changed your moniker, as well? To something else more difficult to spell? WTF! Is it something in the BBS "air?" In its "water?" Why have three of my favorite BBS posters chosen to not only change their monikers, but have changed them to something nonsensical and unspellable? ARGH!!! Edit: Andy, you know I think you're a terrific asset to the BBS, a great guy, and that I agree with you on a host of topics, including the one Trader_J loves to insult you about, but I hate it when members switch monikers for new ones with weird spelling that it takes me three years to remember. I'm sure it's just me, but there you are. Why couldn't it have been a new moniker that's easy to remember and spell, but one no one else has? I think of them, from time to time, and a new member picks one that I'll nod my head upon reading, thinking, "Hey, what a good choice. Why didn't someone think of that before?" And yet some of my favorite people seem to suffer from brain freeze when they do the moniker change. In my opinion, anyway. Just wanted to apologize in advance, in case what I've said bothers you. I won't retract any of it, however, for you or the other couple of members I can think of. Oh well... life will continue here and someday, far into the future, I'll get used to... what is it again??
When I created my moniker, I was not going for originality beyond the simple originality of my name. I have since come to a place where I can foresee a time where my political musings should not be as easily Googled. Thus, I decided on a name change. The new moniker comes from my days as one of the Red Rowdies. For my original tryout, I made a set of gladiator-like armor out of old basketballs that I tore up and tied together with leather ties (big thanks to Behad for several of the balls that I used). As such, I was the Rowdy Gladiator or GladiatoRowdy. Sorry for any consternation or confusion I have created, but I did have good reasons for the change and vow to never change my moniker again. You are more than welcome to continue to address me as Andy, as I have answered to that name for nearly four decades.
The atrocity here is not that Obama doesn't want to do this. Reasonable people can disagree about how far we should go. (Is sleep deprivation torture? maybe, maybe no, and it might be worth it for a high value target). No, the atrocity is Obama revealing to our enemies exactly what we are and aren't willing to do when it comes to interrogation. There is no justification for that, other than to get some political cred with certain people. It is incredibly irresponsible to release such information, now our enemies know exactly what kinds of interrogation tactics they should be training to withstand.
It does give you access to waterboarding and sleep deprivation tactics, which have more or less been commonly alleged to have happened in Guaaaataaaaanaaamoo for a good 7-8 years. And if the terrorists are training for failure, good for them. The more time you try to train against sleep deprivation and waterboarding, the better. Somewhat like training to withstand a bullet in the chest, but hey, at least it'll be slightly less fatal.
I don't even know how to respond to that twisted logic (are you really arguing that giving our methods away to our enemies is a good thing?) Obviously the nature of some(but not all) of these methods might be known. But which methods we do or don't choose to employ are/were not known. Obama has told our enemies the exact duration of sleep deprivation they should train to endure. Just unbelievably stupid.
I'm arguing it's a non-issue when it comes to "revealing how the enemy should fight torture." I don't even know how to begin to respond to your twisted logic that you can "train" for torture. What are they going to do, sleep deprive themselves so that their circadian cycles will reverse themselves?
I should add that I would think the theme of transparency that Obama has espoused is a good one, so it's not like he's doing this for nothing. The American people have the right to know definitively what happened and to react accordingly. I would think that this hat-tip to the constitution would be a worthy cause, but I guess not.
I'm reading through the one from bybee, and for some reason it has spelling mistakes every where, but they all look deliberate, and there are areas that have been blacked out. I wonder what they've censored out of that letter....
I guess you haven't heard of SERE school. As for the theme of transparency, by that reasoning, why classify information at all? As if transparency is innately virtuous.
