The idea of the sub culture is one that gets brought up when discussing the history of segregation and Civil Rights. I've heard some historians point out that Civil Rights actually destroyed the black middle class and elite that existed in segregated neighborhoods like the Harlem and Roxbury. In Northern Cities likes NY and Boston while they weren't officially segregated a lot of zoning, cultural and economic barriers effectively kept blacks confined to a few neighborhoods. In places like Harlem though black entrepreneurs and professionals developed thriving businesses and created things like the Harlem Renaissance. Once those barriers were removed though many of those businesses suffered from Black flight as RR noted of Black professionals moving out but also suffered from competition from other new businesses moving in and from customers able to patronize businesses outside of Harlem. In many ways Harlem is worse off now than it was in the 1950's but I would say Blacks in NY are better off overall than then.
first of all stop focusing on the cosby show. the idea is black progression reaching its peak in the eighties. the cosby show was just an example. i'm not nostalgic for the eighties or the cosby show. this isn't back in my day, i was 9 years old when the cosby show came out. as rr mentioned the larger subject is black flight, the splintering of the black community. i guess rr was able to put it in better context because i couldn't quite grasp what i was getting at. part of that is because fort worth is such a small urban area, black flight isn't the issue it is as in cities the size Houston. fort worth is such a small city its hard for the upper middle class blacks to flight away from anything. if you pay attention and stop trying to correct people for the third time i wasn't all that nostalgic about the time period because of the reasons rocket river noted.
sidenote its funny how this thread has come full circle. most native houstonians should be familiar with the mcgregor park area where a lot of upper middle class blacks settled in the late sixties and seventies. the neighborhood is right outside of the thrid ward. my parents and i recently had a discussion on how the neighborhood is falling apart. for those who are not totally familar with mcgregor park, the neighborhood was first established by jews who weren't allowed to live in the upper middle class white neighborhoods back in the thirties and forties. anyway, two of the residents of mcgregor park were phylicia rashad and debbie allen, for those who don't know they are sisters. they graduated from yates hs. phylicia rashad allen for those who don't know is mrs huxtable. i actually visited their home in the eighties, their younger step brother, hugh allen, is a fraternity brother of my older brother, and my brother took me by their home one day when visiting hugh. i obviously didn't get to meet neither of the famous sisters but it was still actually pretty cool. for those who really have sick memories, hugh was the tall guy on the intro to "A Different World" the guy twirling the cane.
you're right, a lot of people think that the loss of black independent businesses is a huge negative effect of intergration. however in the age of walmart it probably doesn't matter anymore
I'm a young black male in my mid 20's. I was raised in an all black community that can be referred to as "The Hood" among other things. Why in the HELL would ANYONE who can relate to that see "Black Flight" as a bad thing. Right now I could probably name 100+ people who wish they could fly thier asses out of there.
i do order and declare that all persons held as slaves within said designated states, and parts of states, are, and henceforward shall be free. -abraham lincoln said that. one hundred years later, the negro is still languishing in the corners of american society and finds himself an exile in his own land. so we have come here today to dramatize a shameful condition. -mlk said that. you might be livin' in a mansion, you might live in a dome you might own guns and you might even own tanks you might be somebody's landlord, you might even own banks but you're gonna have to serve somebody -bob dylan said that.
First off, great thread PGabs, I've enjoyed it very much. While I don't think that you are just being nostalgic, I do think, like someone else mentioned, that you are just remembering the good from the 80's. I do think that many minorities are better off in general now then they were then. As far as the FW neighborhood going downhill like you mentioned - my neighborhood was nice too when I moved in in 1981..but in 1992 my mother couldn't get out of there fast enough due to the weekly gunfire she heard. I don't think its just black neighborhoods..there are many neighborhoods like that. I think the prevailing thought on that is that when a minority group flees their neighborhood, they no longer shop/eat/buy services from the minority-owned businesses in the area - thereby causing the businesses to fail - causing the neighborhood to decline. According to many people, like Tony Brown, minorities tend to grow economically when they support each others businesses. This is why many Asian/Middle Eastern areas do well. They own and patronize each others businesses in their neighborhoods. However, in the case of Black Flight, people move away or just patronizing the mall instead - sending money to the already wealthy corporations instead of in their own neighborhoods. I know I've mentioned this before, but Tony Browns "White Lies, Black Lies" is an excellent book that touches many of these subjects.
dfw my parents moved into their current home and neighborhood in 1980. the homestead, senicwoods area of northeast houston. home to slimthugger the rapper. believe me, being five years old when moving in this neighborhood, i know first hand how crack ravaged the black middleclass neighborhood which went from middleclass to crackhouse infested in my youth. i guess i probably am giving the mideighties too much credit, but we are really only talking a five year difference on when things really fell apart. one of the coolest things i have encountered in the last five years is my mom's 1943 yearbook from our mother of mercy catholic school when she was in the third grade. it was given to her by my uncle who is five years older than her, it has two other uncles in the year book. the coolest thing wasn't looking at my mom when she was eight looking just like my older sister, it was all the black businesses that sponsored the yearbook. our mother of mercy, where my mom still attends church is smack dab in the middle of fifth ward right off of liberty rd. lyons and jensen, a drug infested neighborhood this day was home to many thriving black businesses as early as the twenties through the sixties. it is a text book example of how intergration and black flight has killed black areas of houston. third ward survived a few years through its proximity to the university of houston and mcgregor park as mentioned earlier. however one of the issues my parents harp on when discussing mcgregor park is that young blacks haven't even taken care of that neighborhood.
I have no doubt that Black Flight hurt many black neighborhoods but I still have a hard time looking back at the 80's as the peak of black progression. It was a time when racism, especially in the South, was still present in casual society and many of the battles of Civil Rights were still being fought.
my bad for looking past your posts. i guess it would be better to look at statistics regarding the peak of black progression. i will look into that but i will say for now just because the president is black doesn't mean black people as a whole have progressed much during the in between period. i think that speaks more to changing overall attitudes.
i would like to get a hispanic point of view on this topic because as an outside observer it amazes me how the hispanic community thrives with hispanic businesses continually moving into poor hispanic areas and even wealthy hispanics building nice homes particularly on the northside aldine area of houston. now hispanics have a different dynamic with many of them still coming from their home countries but the middle class seem to never abandon their poorer roots.
I think this is very true for a couple of reasons. We, as a culture, have been lured into believing buying power is what makes you well off. Unfortunately, today people buy, buy, buy (mostly things they don't need) in order to feel like they've made it - large screen HD TV's, expensive clothes that will be thrown away in 2yrs because they're no longer in style, overpriced game systems, new cars, etc. But then 30yrs down the road when they have to retire for one reason or another, they've found that all that buying kept them from actually attaining real wealth. This part is true of all races though, not just one race in particular. The second part of your statement - when a black person can walk around and someone doesn't notice their skin color - I think what you mean is that they won't be JUDGED by their skin color. Thats what we need to look forward to. People will always notice what someone looks like..thats how you remember them later. Color of their hair, facial features, skin color..its natural. Judging people by these attibutes, however, is NOT natural - it is learned behavior. You are right there - when people can walk around without being judged by their skin color..then we've ALL made it. (us white people have to change too)
that's not what i said. they (blacks) can go anywhere they want and not notice the color of other people's skin. this is quite different. what i mean is that you can't expect racism to end any time soon, but, one can be so comfortable with who they are, regardless of color, clothing, rich, poor, etc., that they don't really think about the racial demographics. their concerns are only with where the bar is, where are the hotties, where should we sit? you know, normal things.
i used to get mad at statements like this because i would take the author as blaming blacks for racism. the older i get the more i agree, i can't worry about what others think about me (as long as it doesn't get in the way of my pursuit of happiness)
here's an interesting study that basically says hs graduation rates for all races peaked in the late sixties. it also has a racial breakdown
