rfs81 writes: "He always made us a title contender." Really? Evidence please. Anyone ever compiled how the Rockets finished in Hakeem's 17 years: won-loss %age, playoff seeding, etc? I know. It's a team game. That is EXACTLY my point. Individual players are rarely ever primarily responsible for long-term team success. How did the Bulls, Lakers, and Celts do during the careers of Jordan, Magic, and Bird? I bet that the Rocket/Hakeem stats don't compare favorably. Those guys kept their teams contending perenially-- Olajuwon didn't. ------------------ "How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak. Because someday you will have been all of these." [This message has been edited by RichRocket (edited July 11, 2001).]
RichR I dont have any stats, but at least in my eyes we have always been a contender. Jordan or no Jordan. ------------------ Keep Mo Ta & now we have Ta Mo
Hey RichRocket, your new moniker is BeggarRocket, start posting accordingly remember the bet, willya? ------------------ Just ship Cato's ass outta town. Plain and simple.
Thanos: Wasn't the bet that someone NEW would be the starting 3 come NEXT October? Correct me if I'm wrong about that, please. Heypartner (aka crispee) can concede if he wants but I am no lemming. It is my intention to let the bet run its course. I'm also ardent on getting to 1000 posts as RichRocket although the slow off-season is making it difficult. I may have to start some more pro-Republican threads in the Hangout! Believe me, I have no sentimental attachment to RichRocket: it has caused me more grief than I ever imagined. I am a Republican but I am not rich, however I am Rich-- if you get my drift. I will honor the bet when the bet is legitimately won not when someone posturing as Team Captain prematurely capitulates-- read that one carefully. ------------------ "How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak. Because someday you will have been all of these."
Hey guys, I have a very minor point to make about Dream's history of hiring agents. I thought I'd pass this along in this thread just in case it changes anyones mind about our summer negotiations with Hakeem, Mo, Shandon, and the fact Dream is holding everything up. According to <a href="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/archive/1995/950619/950619.basketball.html">this article in 1995</a>, Dream has had agents before. This could just mean that he has someone handle is endorsements before, and oeilpere is still correct about him never using an agent to negotiate a basketball contract in over 10 yrs. But I thought I'd pass it along anyhow. I know, it is just a minor footnote to this thread. I not sure if it adds anything to the discussions here.
if the Rockets can work out a deal for Raef, Robinson, Nazr, Marc Jackson, or Antonio Davis while managing to keep Mo and Mooch, then I say renounce Hakeem and let him rot. Hakeem can play games and call it "business" if he wants, but if the Rockets can sign someone who can accept his role on the team, they would be doing better "business" than signing an old whiner past his prime who can't even stay healthy anymore. Whatever, Hakeem can sign for 1 mil if he wants, if we have that much left over. I don't think Hakeem even wants to play here anymore. ------------------ .,.·^*'´'|'\..........,.·^*'´¯¯¯'`*^·,...,/|'`*^·-, '|.......'|::\......,·'.....,.·:*:·,......'`i:'|.......| '|.......'|:::|.....;.......':,:::,:·.......';:|.......| '|.......|::;i - ·;i'`:,......¯¯.......,·´|::|.......| '|.......'´.......'|'i:::`*:~·.–·~^*'´: :'|::|.......'`*·-, '|........,.-:^:':'\:'`:;:: :: : : : :: ::;·'i::/`':^·.,......`'i '|..,.:'´:::::::::::'\| '`*^~·:–:·~^*'´..'|/:::::::::'`:^:., | '´:;:::::::::;:-·^*'´.....................`'*^·:;-.....:;·' ....`·;:·'´........................................'`^·:;·´
As you wish my friend. You are only delaying the inevitable outcome. BeggarRocket you shall be, now and forevermore! ------------------ Just ship Cato's ass outta town. Plain and simple.
imo, there is no doubt that Dream was the difference-maker in igniting our playoff drive. For those not watching at home, you can't truly imagine how well he played versus the previous 3-4 seasons. Many of us couldn't believe it. I really want him back. But it makes no sense if he forces us to offer Mo' less than his bottom dollar. If you truly believe that Dream played better in Feb and March last year than Robinson and Ewing have lately (I do), then these business games of Dream are more painful. It is not as simple as saying, if he doesn't accept X then move on. We have two contracts that are essentially tied together (Mo' and Dream). And we will play our best ball with those two back and healthy. this sucks! this sucks because there is no way I'd give Dream more than a year, for the future of the franchise. this sucks because Mo' may not like waiting into Sept; waiting for Dream to come back down to reality. This sucks because it is the strongest negotiation stance Dream and Fegan can take. They know that waiting us out is going to make us fear losing Mo'. They know they have us by the balls. Can't say I didn't expect it though.
thanos: Hey, you are the first one of this group to call me "friend," so I'll take any moniker you wish to assign! BeggarRocket it may be.... We'll see. crispee: of course it sucks. I'd love to see us turn our backs on Hakeem and let him land where he may. The Rockets are willing to be more than fair with him. You don't pay unreliable players (injuries) top dollar for a good stretch of games at age 38. Roster management has to have an eye on the future always and maybe even primarily. Hakeem is disgracing his Houston career with these actions. Time to move on. ------------------ "How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak. Because someday you will have been all of these." [This message has been edited by RichRocket (edited July 11, 2001).]
Cato=Bum Robinson had 2.5 more points, more rebounds, more blocks, and more assists... but the biggest factor to me is tha the played 80 games. If Hakeem had played 80 games, the Rockets would have been in the playoffs. I can't imagine him playing more next year. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
Crisco and anyone else feeling negotiation pressure "We must get on with negotiating with Nazr, Jackson, and Davis and blah, blah" Where is Dream. Why won't he speak to us. Pick up the phone! Wazzabi! Ahhh Dream Goes to Hollywood Relax, don't do it, When you going go to it Relax, don't do it When you going go spend your money Don't feel the pressure...relax! Here is the case for simply waiting out Dream. Why do you feel so pressured to move on free agents? You are falling right into Fegan's trap. Relax! We can always choose not to spend money, and save it for a rainy day. I just don't want Mo' to get antsy pantsy while Dream is holding us up. I think we need to get used to the idea that Dream is going to make us make the first move. He will wait until late Sept/Oct in my opinion. I would, if I wanted top dollar. Don't make the first move; wait out the mind game bastid. Poker face. Don't flinch! This means don't call other free agents. Dream knows we will not renounce him except on his terms, because "renouncing" sounds so bad in public relations, and he could drag the organization through the media mudd if he so desires. So, if Mo' won't accept $4.5m, Dream is forcing our hand. Uh, there is a way to force Dream's hand But you must maintain. Relax, don't do it When you going to go to it When are you going to sit down Dream. I choose to wait out Dream and tell Mo' exactly what we are doing. I tell Mo' that if we cannot settle with Dream in a way that we can satisfy both contracts, then I'd give Mo' an extra $1m for waiting with us. Under no circumstances would I jeopardize this tip-toeing summer dance, by pursuing other free agents. Right now, I would sign an agreement with Mo' to wait with us. As terms of the agreement, I would give Mo extra cash in the event Dream never signs. I would bet Dream cannot wait until camp. I would make him start negotiations with Miami, et al, first. So be it. I would renounce Dream the day before camp and reward Mo'. That is when I throw my hand on the table. Your best shot at Dream is calling his bluff. Apply some media pressure. Say you really want him over and over, and you want to continue constructing an offense that utilizes his skills. Tell him what he wants to hear. He was awesome last Feb/March; he deserves to be involved. The waiting game Call Dream's bluff He will fold by Oct 7th You have to be willing to lose out on all other free agents. I am. I think they aren't worth negotiating with anyhow. Dream this year and salary room next year is better than Davis and Jackson. If Dream holds his breath until he is blue in the face, and he never signs despite not getting a better offer anywhere else, we lose. So what. That means we have money for February trades. It is a risk, but so is freaking Davis and Mark Jackson eating our Dream windfall. Nazr isn't happening, by my guess-ticulation. If Dream doesn't blink, you end up with cap room, but you don't lose Mo', and you gave your best shot at Dream. I love negotiating. Let's play ball Dream. fockass!! Relax, don't do it Where are you going to spend your money
Thanks guys for laugh. It's definitely the first time that I have ever been called dangerous. BTW, I only printed out posts up to 11:30 a.m., so anyone who had comments after that time are safe. You don't think they can get me for stalking charges do you? Well, if we hear on the local Houston news if they do. Funny, thing though, I have driven by there dozens of times, but the first time I ever stopped. My heart was beating straight through my heart! Talk about nervous. ------------------ "...Do you hear 'em? They're everywhere!!! AAAHHH!!!" That's what the other teams will be saying after being shellshocked by Steve Francis and Co.
To keep things in perspective, the Hakeem situation is no where close to what San Antonio, Toronto and Sacramento is going through with their key free agents. DRob is talking to the press about a lack of respect, AD openly wants to move Orlando, and CWebb likes every other team in the league on any given day. He went and had a personal meeting with Joe Dumars. Hakeem is not talking to the press yet or visiting other cities. ------------------
One more thing I thought about..... More publicity for CC.Net!!!!! I bet we get a few more members, just to see what else is being said on this site. Although the "Oily One"'s letter is a little tough, it is honest. A man of Dream's stature should surely appreciate the straight-forwardness. But a lot of good things were said of him and his tactics as well....this should be interesting. ------------------ "...Do you hear 'em? They're everywhere!!! AAAHHH!!!" That's what the other teams will be saying after being shellshocked by Steve Francis and Co.
LMAO FC! I am VERY glad that you did drop that off in his mailbox. He needs to see what the heart and soul of the Houston Rocket fanbase feels about his current situation. With Pops's innate ability to voice his frustrations in such an eloquent manner, that is not disrespectful; perhaps then, and only then, will Hakeem have the chance to not only pull his own head out of his ass, but MAYBE going back far enough to extract Dan Fegan out his ass afterwards also! I'll always be behind you Hakeem for all the things you have done for us, however i cannot stand behind some of the egotistical actions you have displayed in the past couple of years. If you want us to win a championship and saying that we are "contenders now" (Going on a couple years now) Then let's see just how dedicated you are to our cause and sign for a lower amount. (At least 6 mill. Too disrespectful to have anything lower than Kelvin Catostrophe) Let's get our guys back (Mo, SHANDON, MOOCH) and go for one more (ie. Marc Jackson, Nazr Mohammed, or Antonio Davis) Charles Barkley did it, why can't you? I trust you'll do the right thing Dream. Now let's go kick some Western Conference ass this time to coalesce with the East's! Love, Jack ------------------
Man, I feel for you now oeilpere. all that great info/comments and you won't live to see if they come to pass! You're scaring pops Cat (glad I moved out of state for the first time) Today: We can just send FranchiseCat out there instead of CD/RT ------------------ [This message has been edited by Rudyball (edited July 11, 2001).]
Rudyball: Hilarious... But seriously, I will keep an eye as much as possible without being thought of a NBA stalker. Keep viewing CC.Net as Dream Watch 2001 continues.......... ------------------ "...Do you hear 'em? They're everywhere!!! AAAHHH!!!" That's what the other teams will be saying after being shellshocked by Steve Francis and Co.
I just got back from dropping off everyone comments from this thread at Olajuwon's gate, I thought he had an outside mailbox, but I couldn't see one. I wonder if he (or his staff, relatives or agent) will actually read it or just trash it. Odd thing though, from what I could see, there was a lot of activity (which is not normal....I pass by there at least twice a week to see if I can get a glimpse of Dream and usually, it's quite dead). I could not tell you what was (or is) going on. Anyway, what do you all think that Dream will say, do or think about all that has been said here? Maybe CC.Net can spur Dream to become "available" or to make a "good" decision for both he and the Rockets. Give me some feedback. ------------------ "...Do you hear 'em? They're everywhere!!! AAAHHH!!!" That's what the other teams will be saying after being shellshocked by Steve Francis and Co.
