And there isn't enough money in the world that Dream can earn and repay Houston for getting the guy the supporting cast to win a championship. That is conveniently forgotten. Dream didn't win a championship for 10 years until the right coach, and right supporting cast came in. That's why it is a team game. And if Rudy didn't get that supporting cast to trust him and believe in the system Dream wouldn't have a ring, and people might be treating him the way Ewing is being treated. ------------------ "Instruments are like women: After a while, you want to make love to another." - Nicolas Godin of the musical duo Air [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited July 10, 2001).]
I think after ALL of this, the Rockets will end up offering him a choice of 1 year, 10 million or 2 years, 12 illion. If he doesn't take, houston goes after Lafrentz ,Jackson,Nazr, etc. and Dream goes somewhere else. ------------------ One of the newest members of the New Jersey Nets fan club.
OP- I wanted to write something similar but did not want to waste the energy. Let him go. I am sick of his bull****. He is a spoiled brat even at the age of 38. MARK MY WORDS. THIS WILL NOT BE THE LAST TIME HE CAUSES PROBLEMS IF HE SIGNS WITH US. I CAN SEE IT NOW. A COUPLE OF MONTHS IN THE SEASON AND HE WILL BE CRYING FOR MORE TOUCHES. ------------------ Fuggetabout it
The art of negotiation is about public posturing till the approach of the deadline, then sweating over the numbers in private. And,I am quite sure none of us are privy to the phone conversations between CD and Hakeems agent. But having seen the results of CD's magic (Barkley, Pippen, Stevie,Shandon, Griff) I am pretty confident he will get what he really wants. (If Rudy's sentimentality doesn't get in the way). ------------------ I find my own ignorance amusing
Do we have any indication that Hakeem even reads this BBS? How about his Mom? ------------------ I find my own ignorance amusing
You have nailed my sentiments exactly. He likes to dance on the fence privately, and then publicly move to whichever side gains him the most sympathy and public support. No doubt....IMHO he know precisely what he's doing.
Freak - I think you totally missed the point of the original post. What he was saying was simply that Hakeem can't have it both ways...he can't say "it's all business" and still expect the Rocks to make exceptions for him in this free agency period simply because he WAS a legend. I don't think that post was overly dramatic at all...rather, it was pretty well reasoned. mateo -- as i was reading the first post here, your thoughts nearly mirrored mine. This guy has only been regarded as a good guy during the Rockets winning seasons. I love Hakeem. But I'll be the first to tell you that he hides behind his own legend. The situation with the Heat and his comments about Rudy T this year are recent examples. His run ins with Steve Patterson and Charlie Thomas are better examples (from 1991/92). He simply can't say..."Houston should be loyal to me"...without saying, "I also should be loyal to Houston." Hell, this guy was talking about playing for Vancouver when he was still winning championships here!!! Come on!!! ------------------
Just so everyone understands my wishes: I would love to have him on our season roster. Make no mistake about that. That being said. 1. I think the Rockets will give in to some of the pressure. They will wait longer than they would for any other player. They will offer him more (probably around ~$7.5M a year in a one year deal) than he deserves. 2. I think the effect this will have on team unity and team play will be felt throughout the season. 3. I can't help but think that Cuttino's approach to his contract negotiations was far classier. I can't help but wish that we could fast forward to Steve's contract and see the premiere class act he will present. 4. I am reminded that both Moochie and MoTay have said their piece and made their wishes known without any gamesmanship. No high brow risk moves. I hope it continues. I just wish that Hakeem, the teacher, could take some direction from his pupils/teammates. ------------------
damn, you beat me to the punch. how can freak say that the millions this man has made isn't compensation enough? does he base it on the complete effect that it had on the city? fame? prestige? recognition? There are many jobs that have an indirect(but greatly important) effect on others; doctors, stockbrokers, priests, teachers: shouldn't we pay them billions too? Yes. But do we? No. Are you going to say that b/c of what Hakeem DID(past tense) that he should be continually rewarded regardless of its effect on our future? If you think that then, you must believe that the league should still be paying the greats like Magic, Bird, and Jordan for raising the NBA to level it is today. I think,just my opinion of course, that the 40+million that Hakeem has made over the years is reward enough for his effort. What he did isn't the issue, its what he can do now. is he worth shaq's, webber's, or KG's salary? ------------------
Hakeem and Fagan are likely jamming the Rockets because they are all business -- unlike Moochie, Taylor, etc. But, they are misguided because if the Rockets were all business, they would have shipped Olajuwon to Toronto back in the day. The same princpiles which have kept Dream a well-paid Rocket well past his prime are the very principles Fagan ignores. And Hakeem, too. And even if Fagan is telling Hakeem what to do, Dream is accountable. I remember Rudy looking shaken, saying "I have too much trouble with any trade involving Hakeem Olajuwon to pull the trigger." I side 100% with Rudy at this point -- he pulled a masterful job of rebuilding without crapping on Hakeem (out of respect and loyalty, not hiding behind "business is business.") Hakeem is getting way greedy here. Yes, we owe Dream. But we paid him, repeatedly, with money and respect. He could show some back. Hiring Fagan speaks 1000 words in and of itself. I want to see him here. I mean, I have been a huge Hakeem fan, a huge proponent of "never trade him no matter what." But he will have to come our way this season. We have your back, Rudy, do what you need to do. CBFC ps. Becuase Rudy, I know you care deeply what I think. ------------------ Join the Chucky Brown Fan Club
oilepere, From what you know, would you say that Hakeem truly wants to play here, and is delaying in order to get more money, or is he doing this because he wants to play somewhere else, and doesn't want to seem like the bad guy, so he is waiting for the Rockets to stop pursuing him first? If we ended up signing him to a one yar $7.5 mil contract, that wouldn't be too bad. I just want to know if he really wants to play in Houston, or is he just stringing everyone along? ------------------ Rockets need power forward. Mo near now. Go near Mo. You can Run from the bet, you can Rave at the bet...but you just can't hide.
Well at least there's one topic that TheFreak and I can agree on (other than our mutual undying love for The Backstreet Boys). Is it just me or do the same people that remind us that Hakeem is human accept Robert Barr's resignation as some sort of clean slate? Rudy, Les and Carroll Dawson nearly traded away Hakeem Olajuwon. It is a two way street. Hakeem is a business man. The Rockets are business men. They're both posturing from their respective opinions. Dream is gambling on loyalty and the fact that he is a player superior to Cato, and hell probably for the next 3 years, Antonio Davis. The Rockets pat themselves on the back and pretend that they didn't mismanage Dream's time over the past few years and reason "he'll probably be injured", "he'll probably be uninterested". Where both sides give in, lies a contract. This is only about business. Quit dragging Dream's name through the mud, lest yee acknowledge Les Alexander is perhaps his only competent counterpart in the entire organization.
It's more then that Hebe, it's about the other things I mentioned. Going public about his frustration in the offense, asking to be traded or waived mid-season, hampering the Rockets ability to talk to free agents, etc., etc. It's one thing if the Rockets trading him hurt his career, it wouldn't have. But Dream's demands in mid-season, and his refusal to talk to the team during a critical free agent period is grating on the nerves of people. If Dream wants to play hardball, I'm pretty sure the Rockets can make it "business is business" and renounce him. The Rockets are trying to build for the future. ------------------ "Instruments are like women: After a while, you want to make love to another." - Nicolas Godin of the musical duo Air
exactly...achebe (damn, do we ever agree??), the Rockets had trade offers made for Hakeem...ones that many people thought they were foolish for passing up. Toronto offered us a ton for Dream..for a guy who couldn't play a full game to save his life at that point! But the Rocks didn't do it. Did they "almost" do it?? I don't know. But almost only counts in hand greandes and horse shoes....they didn't! They were loyal. And yet, at midseason, Hakeem starts talking up trade. Talking about what it would be like to play for Pat Riley. Hakeem is due all respect...but damn it, the Rockets are due respect too...by Hakeem...for the way they treated him throughout his career. His position in this whole thing is looking silly. If it's "strictly business", he'd be singing O'Canada right about now. But clearly it wasn't "stricty business" for the Rocks. Now let's see if Hakeem responds in like measure...to date, he has not. And if he tries to make the Rocks look like bad guys in this deal, he's a flat out jackass considering the way that franchise and this city has treated him during his career here. ------------------
What exactly did Dream say that wasn't true? Perhaps I can't see the frustration b/c I happen to believe in the big man game. Being unused, ignored by Rudy... When did Dream do that? And Dream is trying to handle his last contract. Why do you care? It's 07/10. Do you even know that Rudy and CD haven't spoken to Hakeem? I must have missed that article. Besides, business is business. What you call 'holding up other FAs' is from the perspective that Dream is worth x amount of dollars. From Dream's perspective he's worth x + y. He's not holding up other FAs, he's negotiating his contract. Not yet. Huh? Dream was the most solid player on the Rockets at that time (Kevin Willis went off for a little while) Midseason the next year? Or midseason 2.5 years later, when the Rockets were a) no longer competing for the championship and b) a bunch of 23 year old bunnies and c) and this is important mind you... not playing Dream. Were the Rockets 'loyal' before or after they entertained the trade conversation. Were the Rockets 'loyal' before or after they leaked the trade story to gauge public sentiment (per Jeff's post a few weeks ago). It's business. Leave it at that and you won't degrade yourself to the point of insulting Hakeem or the Rockets (Robert Barr's career RIP).
Hakeem was the most solid player when the Toronto trade was offered?? Are you kidding? His career was clearly on the downside!!! His minutes were diminishing. And he wasn't being played for reasons!! Quite frankly, he CAN'T play those minutes anymore. As a lifelong Hakeem fan, it's not fun to watch him sucking air and looking tired all the time. It's not much fun to watch him play less than 1/2 the season. It's not much fun to know that if he starts the game, he'll probably only play about 25 minutes. I don't think Rudy is too much to blame...and if he is, is he also worthy of the credit for Hakeem's career because he played the hell out of him in 93-97??? That's fine...if it's just business, that's fine!! That's what I hope. But I think it's more likely that Dream is going to end up saying something about how he really hoped to sign with the Rockets and how the Rockets just never paid attention to him. If it's just business, then he doesn't leave us much choice. We can't risk not signing any of the rest of these free agents because Hakeem is stalling. So it's time to cut the cord. Signing a guy who has maybe a year left in his body is not worth what we'd sacrifice in losing some other key guys who stand to contribute past this upcoming season. I'm all about loyalty...I hated the idea of the Toronto trade!! I hate the idea of Hakeem playing in any other jersey. But he can't continue to keep the team in this position. And if you think Rudy and CD haven't contacted him, you're nuts. He's the first step in anything they do this offseason. ------------------
You're confused about which season Dream was offered to the Raptors... it was the summer of 1999, after the short season (I was apparently confused to w/ that Willis reference). Dream played every game during the lockout shortened season, averaged 19 ppg, ~10 rpg, 2.5 bpg, 1.8 spg. Do you have news about the recurrence of Dream's ailment? He certainly wasn't "sucking air" this past year. You misunderstood me. I wrote that they very well could have communicated by now. IMO, it's just as plausible that the Rockets would rather sign a younger player w/ Dream's cap space as it is that Dream's asking for more money than he is worth. ------------------ Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen... [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited July 10, 2001).]
The Toronto deal went down this way according to what I was told (just for the record): Toronto contacted the Rockets with an offer of specific players for Olajuwon. The Rockets were non-committal though it was argued later that they passed on a deal that provided them a great deal of talent and cap flexibility. Toronto upped the offer for Dream. The Rockets, especially Rudy T., were against making the move because they felt that keeping Hakeem a Rocket until retirement was a priority. The Rockets were prepared to keep Olajuown and turn down the trade offer when they leaked it to the press to determine what public sentiment would be. There was a strong response from fans that Hakeem should remain a Rocket. That solidfied their decision to keep him on the team. The whole situation was handled quietly and within the organization and waas only leaked after they had basically made an in-house decision to pass. What would have happened if the public outcry was the opposite? Who knows. It wasn't, however, and the rest is history. Anyone who would suggest that the Rockets attempted to trade Hakeem and were disloyal would be incorrect. ------------------ How the hell should I know why God would allow the Holocaust. I don't even know how the electric can opener works. - from Hannah and Her Sisters
Oeilpere, this is the best post I have read on this BBS. It is time for the Rockets to play hardball with Hakeem. ------------------
Jeff, sorry if I misquoted you. I misunderstood your earlier post. I still find it hard to believe that Robert Barr was alone in that whole fiasco. Just the fact that Rudy took the "I've been locked away in a pirate's chest" excuse makes the whole scenario all the more peculiar in my opinion (though watching the draft video I'd say it makes a bit more sense now). There's no way in hell that that trade escalated to the point that it did (was discussed 'for a week?' if I remember Blinebury's article) w/o Carroll Dawson, Les Alexander and Rudy Tomjanovich giving it a significant review. There's also no need to find a scapegoat, ala Robert Barr, if the trade didn't escalate to the point of seriousness that it did. Dream wouldn't have been hurt, the town wouldn't have been hurt if it were just a cordial call. What would have been gained by just saying "oh yeah team a called". Teams call every single day, you don't hear about flimsy trade rumors every single day. BTW, what was 'the leak'? As details start to come back, I remember the first and only article being by Blinebury. That wasn't a nice article at all, it was scathing. I'd find it hard to believe that that was a cooperative piece at all, considering Blinebury burned Rudy in that same article (if memory serves).
