Oh I fully understand that THEY and YOU saw it that way, and I think it's an understandable position. But this whole "it can only be seen in hindsight" (which is what you did say) is just silly. We've had this discussion before, thus my "over and over" part of it. As far as why I'm angry? Because I don't like being told that I didn't see what I saw and it only could be seen when other people see it.
That's the problem. People love to keep spouting negative subjective viewpoint when nothing is ultimately proven. Great, you said it then, you are saying it now. We heard you the first time. You can stop now. It does nothing for us.
Really? So if Major Applewhite comes to the Texans and says "I want $8MM to be your starting quarterback", the team has no control over it and must accept it? The team has a lot of control in that they determine the value of players, and they can choose to try to outbid other teams or not. The team fully controls where that $8MM ends up. You act like players simply control the whole process. Are you really trying to argue that having cap room to improve your team is not important?
You seem to enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again as well. Why should anyone else stop while you continue?
No, at best, I think he's a game manager (average). At worst, he can lose games for a team. Perhaps I shouldn't have said the offense would always suck. He's just not really going to contribute to winning is more my position. I think you can stick any of a bunch of generic QB's back there and get you what Carr would. If surrounded by great talent everywhere, the offense could be great, but I would expect that it would simply be due to everyone else. So going back to the original idea, losing Carr would have been no loss in my eyes because I think you could replace him with Rosenfels or Tim Rattay or someone like that and get similar results without spending nearly as much.
Because I don't care nearly as much as you do that people are arguing on here. It is, after all, a message board.
This is true. Ive always like UT, since I was young and continue to support them even though I go to Baylor.
no, major - what i'm saying is that your position is tantamount to, "the texans should release david carr because they can draft a QB with the 8th pick in this year's draft. and if the guy they want is gone, they can just draft one next year." well, yeah - technically, you're right; they could. but is that the best, most sensible way to go about building a franchise? we'll do A because of B, even though we have no way of controlling B. would you live your life this way? would you quit a job before having another one? after all, you control your next place of employment, right? you can turn down offers, ask for more money, relocate... and we're not viewing the luxury of cap money in a vacuum; we're viewing it vis-a-vis a specific situation. and while carr + a draft pick is certainly no guarantee, it's certainly more predictable than draft pick + we'll go out and spend carr's money however we want... i know at this point you're just being contrarian for the sake of it, because if this were the astros, and someone was griping that the team didn't sign so and so, you and i would be in a race to post, "it takes two to tango" - you know this, and i know this - so why are we going round and round on it?
sorry; i just went back and reread this - and my contention isn't that those faults didn't exist. they did; i saw them, too. my contention is that now, a year later, when a lot of the faults resurfaced and progress stalled, people are drowning out his first three years with, "see? i told you so"s as if he never made ANY progress. that's not a fair assessment of the situation.
Ric- I was a huge fan of the Oilers from the beginning- Scott Appleton, Sid Blanks, Charlie Hennigan were some of my favorite players. I was an Oiler season ticket holder and the only reason I am not a Texans season ticket holder is because I cannot attend the games on Sundays. I have an opinion that is all--- and my opinion is that the Texans were football stupid for extending David Carr and passing on VY. I don't know the future but that is the only thing that validates or crushes opinions. At the end of their careers we will be able to talk about what might have been etc etc. Because of my passion for Houston football and maybe because I was there for every Luv Ya Blue game or for whatever reason I want the Texans to win a Super Bowl. Badly. I cannot put it into words how I deeply I feel about the opportunity I think we lost during the last draft to take a big step towards a Super Bowl win. I absolutely know that one player does not make the difference. I certainly can plainly see that a special QB is not needed to win the Super Bowl and I don't believe that Carr is a scrub and couldn't possibly play in a Super Bowl. I predict VY will be an all time great and a champion in this league. My opinion. I predict Reggie Bush will be exciting and make big plays but never be a HOF running back or receiver. I predict David Carr will not play in a playoff game for the Houston Texans. I base those predictions soley on my time in front of the TV set. Which means I am not an expert, just a preacher with a passion for the game. Now- having said all that, let's sit back and see how it all plays out.
Except, last year, they had the #1 pick - so they had FULL control of the draft at that position. If they wanted a QB, there was no scenario where he would be gone. Except I'm not arguing about any specific signing - I'm arguing the value of cap room in general, which you dismiss as unimportant since the team apparently has no control over spending it. If we were having this discussion about the Astros, I would argue the Astros would be better off right now for their future if they had not signed Carlos Lee because it would give them $17MM in "cap room" (with their artificial economic cap) and that flexibility is worth far more than Carlos Lee (I don't think he's worth that money). It's simple to me - Carr wasn't worth $8MM and thus having $8MM is better than having Carr. So your options were: Carr + #1 Pick #1 Pick + $8MM This discussion started with my pointing out that you ignored the $8MM in your weighing the two scenarios - I think $8MM is *more* valuable than Carr, so its an easy choice for me. For others, even if it's not as valuable as Carr, it has real value. You insisted on pointing out to people who didn't want Carr that Carr vs. Young wasn't the full scenario and you had to consider Carr & Williams vs. Young. Well, that's not true either. In the VY scenario, it would have been Carr & Williams or Young & $8MM. If you went with Bush or Williams instead, you still have the $8MM there. We're going round and round because you're trying to argue that Carr is more valuable than $8MM in cap room since the team apparently can't control how that is spent. I disagree, so we'll keep going back and forth until one of us stops.
Ok, that I get. I really don't see any other reason though. The Texans will be fine without VY. We will be a good team in the future. I think VY is overrated and his bestowed greatness is unclear. Just because you can run when you can't pass it doesn't make you a great qb. I foresee some bumps in the road for him. I would much, much rather have a Warren Moon. We will be fine. Who is complaining about the Rudy Gay draft trade now etc? It is the same tired crap.
Yes, but "we" all don't feel the same way you do. "We" all don't feel the need to gripe about the VY bitterness as much as you do. If you hate that fire so much, why do you keep tossing logs onto it? BS. Bull. S. There is no such thing as a "TRUE FAN!!!!" and there is no such thing as a "fake fan". It is an entertainment choice. Arguments like this are full of crap, and for you to berate people on here based on "TRUE FAN!!!" nonsense is crap piled higher and deeper. You've taken the low road here, man. Your posts are just as bitter and divisive as the "I hate the Texans" nonsense that irritated both of us. How have you made anything better? I need people, whether they like VY or my Texans or not. I like to discuss sports with folks, regardless of their viewpoint. If you only need people who agree with you, and can't handle other points of view, why are you criticizing me? I typically really enjoy your posts; I don't mean to come off as attacking you (since I don't know you). It's just that this week-long tirade of yours is helping nothing.
I'm sorry, but I very much disagree with this. There's a reason we're called "fans" and not "game goers". Fan comes from the word fanatic. And hell yes I can be more of a fanatic than another person when it comes to sports. It's not necessarily a character issue or anything like that, but to say that one person can't be more of a fan than another is, in your words, BS. Bull. S.
We can agree to disagree. But being a fan is so ridiculously trivial. And, the bitter diatribes of some folks paint those who in their estimation aren't "TRUE FANS!!!!" on the same par with freaking bin Laden. Or, at best, a flag burner. IMO it's FAR too subjective and FAR too trivial to attempt to quantify with words like "loyalty" or "truth". If I'm pissed that the Texans passed on VY and I say so every time I have a chance, but I pay $25,000 for season TIX, PSL, beers, and parking, while you sing McNair's praises, watch every game, but can't afford to come to the game, who's the "TRUE FAN!!!!"? You and I both invest emotionally. But I out-invest you financially by thousands of dollars. It's nonsense. It's bull****.
