Dealing Lowry for expirings...

So, here's my question, actually two questions, to you DaDa.

1. Do you think Brooks' game and our team would improve drastically with a playmaking type SF that plays great D like Iguodala? That is to say, a guy that can distribute effectively from the top or on the break, which Iggy is great at, so that Brooks could play off the ball more and attack secondarily off the initial penetration of a playmaker like Iguodala?


2. Do you think Lowry's game and our team would improve drastically with a shooting/scoring type SF that plays good D like Melo? That is to say, a guy that is not a defensive sieve and mismatch for our opponents to kill and that has multiple offensive scoring talents, including the ability to rise up from anywhere on the court and nail the jumper. A SF that truly has the ability to spread the floor and force the defense to have to play honest on him.

 

I agree, if the Rockets can clear up some more space they can make a run at Gasol...might have to overpay a bit to avoid the Griz from matching but you described their situation perfectly.

If Ish can continue to show he is an NBA PGuard then the squad has to many other issues not to use one of the three as trade bait to help fix another weakness on the team.

 

Just something for you to consider........if Lowry was balanced on the court with a small forward that could really spread the floor, then his bowling ball drives into the lane would probably be much more effective. And if Lowry actually had a wing that could run the floor effectively and finish with authority at the rim on the break, that could actually go backdoor off the overplay and dunk the durn ball down over somebody, and that could actually pull up at the 3 point line on the break as the trailer and knock down that wide open 3-ball shot at a 40+% clip, then he would probably look a whole lot better.

 

Any improvement to our team would make everyone better....so of course I think we could use a better SF.

I think the team would improve, but I think ultimately, Lowry's flaws would be exposed in that situation too.

Because teams are not guarding him at all, they are letting him shoot, and when he drives, the refs are not falling for his barreling into people to draw a foul, because they get used to seeing it as he plays more minutes.

So, at the end of the day, when we played better teams, they would still be able to play 5 on 4 and Kyle would not be able to score enough to make them change their defense, and it would hurt the team in the end.

IMO, Kyle is what he is, a very good backup PG, that out hustles people, gets good looks in transition ( he is the worst half court passer out of all our PGs) and plays pretty good D.

A nice backup, but not someone you pay $6 million for....

There is a reason that ONLY the Cleveland Cavs offered him a deal....

And honestly, right now, Ish looks way better.....but he is only a rookie....we shall see if he keeps it up, but his passing is already stellar.....

DD

 

People in this thread are ready to call it a season, ship Lowry out (for Marc Gasol, like Memphis would ever consider that trade), and hand the backup spot to an untested rookie. I'd say that's souring on the guy.

 

I am not there yet, but if Ish keeps it up, you have to consider Kyle's contract as a pretty onerous one....

If he is only a backup PG, and Ish can fill that role much more cheaply, DM has proven he will ship a player out and go with the younger cheaper alternative.

DD

 

I would ship his azz out....hell he aint a difference maker on THIS team right now....I like him but if you can trade him ....peace out

 

It is true that so far in the first part of this season he is not getting to the line nearly as much as he used to. If that continues, his value goes down the tubes. I don't quite understand that. When I watched the Thunder game, it really felt like Westbrook was getting calls that Lowry was not. That thrown up jumper at the half where Westbrook landed the 3 free throws, and a couple different drives on both where Westbrook got calls and Lowry got a TO just didn't add up to me. Of course, I am biased to our team. I didn't even feel like Martin got the benefit of the foul calls early like he should have. He finally wound up getting to the FT line 9 times but most of those were late. That play where he went in for the layup and Ibaka blocked it was clearly a foul on the body by Ibaka but was not called. Martin's turnovers in that game were uncalled fouls that are usually called. We did not get the whistle early. That's not an excuse. But it is a fact.

It is true that our team, to be successful, has to get to the FT line a bunch. And if the refs swallow the whistle, we are in trouble. I don't like that. But I don't see how the refs can really swallow the whistle consistently either. OKC is built the same way. Their offensive efficiency is built on two guys getting to the FT line a ton.

The other thing I really feel about Lowry right now is he is simply not completely healthy. He is not playing with the same speed and intensity that he did last season or the season before. I don't think that is a contract thing. I think he's still dinged and it has effect his conditioning and on top of that he is having to pace himself because he knows he's going to be out there for 36+.

 

I don't buy that anymore. He looks healthy to me.

He is rebouding well, still barreling into people, his flaws are just being exposed.

And teams are scheming for him now...they are saying, "OK, do not guard the Rockets PG, stay in the lane".....

NBA GMs and coaches are not stupid, they can see what is going on out there, Kyle and Ish both need to hit shots to be effective.

And of course he has to pace himself, but his numbers are flat out terrible, everything is bad outside of rebounding, less assists, more turnovers, bad shooting, bad FT shooting...everything is down.

People b**** about AB, and his lack of assists, yet here we are with Kyle and exactly what most of us have been saying all along, that the PG does not get all the assists in Houston, and Kyle is getting less than AB......it is not shocking to me, though.....

This is a "What have you done for me lately league" if he continues to suck, when AB gets back, Kyle may slide down to 3rd in the pecking order.

DD

 

Personally, I think a trade goes down for Lowry only if it brings in an elite player or another serious upgrade. But that's a trade that happens regardless of whether Ish proves to be capable. For the right player back, Morey will probably live with a temporary downgrade at the PG spot or any other position.

But I think Morey's still sweet on Lowry and won't deal him in a trade like the one that shipped out Ariza. It will take something major.

 

Yes, it is so funny that most of the people on here really wanted Lowry to be the starter, now they want him traded. I saw the writing on the wall. Not saying i'm smarter than DM, or any of you guys for that matter, but I could tell in his game that he was not starter material. When DM matched that contract I knew he had to, but thought it was a bad one. Heck I would have rather sign Rafer back for the vet min. They both play good D, niether can shoot, Kyle is a better finisher at the basket, but Rafer is better at setting his guys up for easy baskets.<p>Lowry is nothing more than an off the bench change of pace guy. He will not be able to sustain the intensity he brings day in and day out against starting PGs. I guess you could start Lowry so Brooks can be that scorer off the bench, but Brooks should still get the starter minutes and play at the end of games. But lowry is not a 30+ minute a night guy, he may just be another trade piece. Question is other than Cleveland, who would take that contract for a backup?

 

I think Morey's analytics get in the way of good basketball decisions sometimes.....for instance the FT attempts etc.

Yes, KL drew a lot of fouls, but when you start stacking a lot of those guys on one team, the refs are not going to fall for every one of their flops....it is just like the Jazz in Utah, the refs can't call every foul so they get more selective.

DM should have considered this when he got KMart, that it would cost some fouls being drawn elsewhere, because Kmart gets a lot of "Cheap" fouls, and the refs will try to even that out...at the expense of others.

There is a pecking order out there, and considering the human element in the equation is just as vital as considering the numbers..IMO

Also, please note how all the AB should sit and Lowry should start guys are nowhere to be found these days....lol.

DD

 

I hear you. I'm also somewhat skeptical about how consistently Martin's or Lowry's ability to draw fouls can help the team. It's just a gut feeling, but there seems to be a limitation to such a strategy.

But I think there's a lot more to Lowry's game than just bowling into people and expecting to draw a foul. I know a lot of posters don't agree right now, but I still see a lot of value in the way Lowry plays.

 

Of course it is a flawed strategy, you are completely dependent upon a 3rd party to help your cause.

If the refs are on your side, great, if not....it is akin to a turnover, it is a very risky strategy.

The best strategy is to simply get a good shot and make it. LOL.

It is why Kevin Martin has been so ineffective in the 4th quarter his whole career, he relies too much on the referees to bail out his bad attempts....sometimes that is all he is trying to do...draw a foul.....

At some point your focus needs to be on buckets, and not on drawing fouls.

Sure, but his value, IMO, is in short bursts, where he comes in and flat out ramps up the tempo, that is what he is good at, and it changes the dynamic of games in a hurry.

Unfortunately that is not sustainable over large amounts of time either, and in the playoffs when it becomes a grind it out in the half court game, he really struggles.

Folks think I am so pro-AB, that I can't see his flaws....of course I can see them....I just think there are more warts on Kyle than on AB....and you go with the less warty player....



DD

 

Lowry and his contract are not a burden on this team. He is still a dynamite backup PG. There is no reason to "dump" him, that would be the definition of selling low.

Haters take note! You can actually have opinions on one guy without villianizing his counterpart!

 

Agreed, but if Ish Smith turns out to be the real deal, then we can afford to trade one of our other 2 PGs.

 

Agree, but did we dump Trevor? Or did we dump Rafer?

Morey has shown a history of clearing out the higher priced guy to make room for a lower priced guy that can fill the role.

DD

 

Lowry was fantastic as the energy guy off the bench for the past two seasons, but I don't think he's limited to that role. For example, he's been good at managing minutes and eating up the clock when the Rockets have the lead. (I'm not counting this season.) Better than Brooks IMO.

IIRC back when Alston was the starter, Brooks was also great at being the sparkplug off the bench. He was probably better than Lowry in that role.

Anyway, these next few weeks will give everyone a better look at Lowry and Smith.