Phoenix has the cap space to take back that extra 10 mil. Like I said before, I really don't think they want want established stars like Marion, Francis, or Pierce. I don't think they want to be tied down by their max contracts. Trading Mcgrady pretty much guarentees they won't win the title any time soon so they might as well build for the future. I think they want to start over from scratch and tank next season and hopefully find another LeBron or Yao in the draft next year. By having Francis and Marion on the team, they risk being stuck in mediocrity. Not bad enough to get a high draft pick. Not good enough to ever win the title.
Sane, How is this team an improvement? Yao/Declerq MoT/Weatherspoon (Would be excelelnt to sign Dice) JJ/Hill/Boki McGrady Lue/Hill/second rounder/minimum FA Yao, JJ, Boki, and Spoon are all the same, so leave them out, but... MoT is better as a second unit scorer than a starter Hill cannot play, so he cannot be our backup anything, much less PG Declerq is nowhere near Cato as a backup for Yao. And I think the disparity between Lue-Francis is greater than that between Cat-Tmac, meaning our backcourt as a whole is worse. So, to recap: MoT reserve > MoT starter Cato > Declerq Exception PG (Barry?) > Hill Francis + Mobley > McGrady + Lue Where have we improved, other than Tmac over Mobley?
Furthermore, is the upgrade of Tmac at SG really worth a downgrade at 4 other positions in our 8 man rotation (I mean, c'mon, that's half)?
Hey, go for it. I'm all for intelligent trade discussions. This was a new take, and stuff like that is always worth discussing, as a fan. I'm not one of those who act as though someone is doing us a disservice when they post trade ideas, as though we, in basketball forum, are above that kind of speculation, and should be concentrating on more important issues like...er...the defecit? If they're inane, I ignore them, or if the poster has previously shown a clear propensity for making trade suggestions merely to get rid of a player they don't like, I usually don't click. But from a quality poster like yourself, or for an intelligent ( although, IMO, too weighted in our favour) thought like this, I'll read it and might respond.
That's true, but still, they wouldn't do it. They wouldn't be able to imporove after that trade, and would be locked up long-term, while also needing to extend Amare in a year. The supporting cast is too weak for them to be able to go over the cap longterm and give away their draft picks and younger players. Besides, you keep saying they don't want established players, but want capspace. For what? Tos ign Francis and marion calibre players in a few years? Denver signed a 27 year old Andre Miller and Marion is around 26M. It's not the same case for Orlando. I don't think they'd turn down a Steve Francis, someone who attracts so much attention, especially when they are thirsty for publicity and need something to satisfy the sulking fans. If they had to start over, they'd probably have to relocate.. I fear they'd have a historic collapse in fan support. If they want capspace, they'll just let T-Mac walk for nothing, and IIRC Hill will be removed from the cap if he isn't healthy next season. From the GM's comments, I think it's very clear the Magic are looking for an established player in return, and it's looking mroe and more like McGrady will in fact be leaving the Magic.
The one way I see this happening is this: - CD shopping any combination of MoT, Cato, Mobley and the TE. - Put down all the deals that all the teams offered. - Pinpoint the single best player in these offers, especially the ones whom the Magic would like. - Package this best player, Steve Francis, and a player of Orlando's choice to the Magic for Hill and McGrady. Which teams would absolutely love to have a 6.9M TE? Which teams need it most? I'm thinking maybe the Hornets are looking to re-tool a little bit? The Wizards? Maybe though, they would be willing to do Steve, Mobley, Cato and the TE for Hill and McGrady? They turn out pretty damn solid, and even though we'd have some holes in the line-up, I could live with it. Cato/Declerq Howard/Gooden Garritty/Bogans Mobley/Stevenson Francis/gaines They'd also have a TE as well as their top draft pick. If they use their pick on Luol Deng, and their TE on someone like Aaron McKie: Cato/Declerq Howard/Gooden Deng/Garritty Mobley/McKie/Stevenson Francis/McKie/Gaines That team can fight for #4 in the East, which is 10 spots better than their previous year. They'd have some youth in Stevenson, Gaines, Deng and Francis (to a certain extent), while also having some vets in Mobley, Howard and McKie. Shooting, post scoring, defense, rebounding. That's a pretty damn good team actually. Thoguhts?
The cap space gives them flexibility to make future moves. Baring a miracle, they are not going to be able to unload Grant Hill’s contract. By acquiring Marion or Francis, the Magic are in essentially the exact same position they are in now with two players occupying most of there cap space making it difficult to make any future moves. The only difference is they replace Mcgrady with a worse player. I just think the best way the get the Magic out of the hole that they are currently in is to acquire young talent with cheap contracts (ie. stockpiling lottery picks) rather then strapping themselves by paying max dollars to players that while have proven to be very good, they aren’t going to carry a team to any championships. I’m sure they wouldn’t mind having Francis or Marion, I just think they’d prefer lottery picks. Francis/Marion is appealing to a team that is just retooling and looking to add their team. Lottery picks are more appealing to a team that is in full rebuilding mode. The Magic look like their in full rebuilding mode to me.
New Jack, please remember that McGrady has the leverage with Orlando. Not the other way around. Therefore McGrady isnt going to go to the Clippers, Charlotte, Chicago etc because those are BAD teams, teams no different than Orlando. There is no incentive for him to leave. IF McGrady gets traded it would seem logical that it follows these two parameters. 1) McGrady wants to go to a NON-lottery team. A team that has a good sidekick he can play with, perhaps a team with a solid low post player to match up with his wing play. 2) Orlando is not going to want to trade him in the Eastern Conference, but would rather trade him to a Western Conference team. So therefore we can deduce that it is likely that IF he gets traded chances are it would be to a playoff Western Conference team. McGrady will probably tell the Magic the teams he would like to play for. And then the Magic will deal with the teams that can offer the best deals, value, for him. When the Magic trade a guy as valuable as McGrady, they have to know that they are NOT going to get fair value back, so they will be looking for the best value overall. Things like young prospects and early draft picks might be hard to come by from NON-lottery teams. The Magic's hand is kind of forced here. They are in survival mode. They have to trade McGrady before they lose him for nothing like they did with Shaq, something that quite frankly the franchise STILL hasnt recovered from.
As you know, I'd like to take a risk on Gaines because he has all the tools for making the grade as a PG but didn't -- in fact, it was a bust of a rookie season for him. However, I'd with your scenario I would prefer to pick up Gooden in that deal some way, some how. Work some "Magic," Gater. Otherwise, we need to work a minor trade with the Wizards to pick up Steve Blake or get Orlando's #31 (first in second round) to pick up Chris Duhon or a Euro PG.
New Jack, I see what you're saying. But I don't think Orlando will go into full-blast rebuilding mode, not again. This stockpiling picks and capsapce is what landed them in this position. Granted it was a stroke of bad luck (Hill's ankle), it doesn't change the fact that full rebuilding would be UNACCEPTEABLE to the Magic, how could they possibly keep rebuilding? Best case scenario: Trade T-Mac for a slightly lesser player plus a role player (prefferably a C). Pick the best available with your pick. Sign someone with the 4.5M exception. Hope Grant Hill can provide very limited minutes at SF and PG next season. If all this works out, the Magic will already be competing for homecourt. IMO, with our deal (Cato, Mobley, Francis) they do one betetr by unloading Grant Hill while also getting 3 starters. Add Hill, Okafor, and Howard/Gooden to those 3, and you have yourself a very solid team, with room for improvement.
