Why not check my thread for the ultimate source, the Chronicle, on the matter? Achebe-Yes is the answer on your team opt. question. A distinct possibility IMO is Walt for Brad Miller, where we then renounce (decline) Miller, clearing up Walt's salary. Or Cato. Or both. The Bulls could then actually get him back when they ultimately swing and miss via free agency. heyparty-you have inadvertently brought something very interesting to my attention. The Early Bird is the average salary, while the mid-level exception is now the average salary+8%. That means, if this had happened last summer, another team could have signed our restricted free agent (Mobley) to an offer sheet of the exception and we wouldn't have been able to match the terms, assuming we had used our exception. Something to keep in mind for the future. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
Sorry about not responding sooner - I have been a little busy of late. First thing - the table on my webpage is not accurate - I have updated the spreadsheet but not uploaded it to the web. Trust me - I have removed Bryce Drew Try the following two links - they are crude html tables from my spreadsheet - one is the minimum possible rockets salary and the other is the max. Apologies they are not linked directly through the site, but this is the best I can do for the moment (no html editor at work) http://rocketdavo.tripod.com/salarymin.htm http://rocketdavo.tripod.com/salarymin.htm Hopefully they will explain a few of the questions and how I arived at my salary cap amount. Note that I have moved closer to the Chronicles amount, but to do it I had to renounce everything - all free agents, expeptions and draft picks. I personally think that is unrealistic. According to the NBA Salary Cap FAQ Item #13, "Exactly what is included when computing total team salaries? A percentage of the previous salary of unrenounced free agents (see question number 26) The "scale" amount for the team's unsigned first-round draft pick(s) (see question number 37) The combined amount of any mid-level, $1 million, disabled player (see question number 16) or traded player exceptions (see question number 64) available to the team, if the team is under the salary cap. (Teams may renounce these exceptions, in which case they no longer count against team salary.) To me that indicates that we must include the unused exceptions in our salary cap figure, as well as the cap amounts for un-renounced free agents, which would include bird and early bird multipliers. If you think about it, it makes more sense that way - including or excluding them once you are over the cap is kind of pointless - all you are doing is changing how far over the cap you are. Responding to questions in order, Running Raven -I wasn't 100% sure what order our draft picks would be. In my calculation I included Rookie Scale Amounts for 2 first round draft picks - one at 12 and one at 22, plus the minimum amount for a second rounder. If it is the 12th pick, the salary amount will change a bit, but it is almost negligible. Smeg - good man. The West Coast won as well. How did you get on TV in Adelaide - ws it nationally televised? I have checked out Nikestrads ost and a few of things surprised me - Did Taylor sign a 2 year deal? Traj See above - I don't think the exceptions are forfeited when we go below the cap. vj23k, I think you are a little confused about the early bird contract - it has nothing to do with time in league, it is eaqul to the league average plus a few % points. Also, Los is not a free agent this year. He isn't going to detroit unless we trade him. Dream won't have toplay for the minimum - we can sign him to the mid level which will be over $4 mil. Gater I think I have narrowed the gap, but to do it, I have the rockets renoucing everyone, and trading away all there draft picks! I just see them doing that. Click on the minimum link above to see what I mean. The difference between my minimum figure abd theirs is probably just noise/rounding. Achebe - not sure what you mean about Shandon - if he does not opt out, he only counts $2.4 towards the cap. If he does opt out, and we don't renouce him, he counts 130% of his previous salary until renouced. hp yes - I used rookie scale amounts for 1 and 2 and the minimum for the second rounder. ------------------ ..as a man danced so the drums were beaten for him. Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info
davo-Don't include the 2nd rounder for 2 reasons. 1. We don't have our 2nd rounder (to Dallas, Langhi trade) 2. Contracts for 2nd rounders are not guaranteed, therfore they don't count against the cap until we sign. Even if we did have a pick, they couldn't do a thing if we said "We've got other things to do, come back and talk contracts in a month." The Chronicle didn't count the Early Bird/Bird multipliers. The impression I got is that Taylor has the option on the 2nd year, and it's a basic given that he opts out. Wouldn't it be something if he took the hit, and took an option for under 2.5 mill? With Falk, it's not gonna happen. Strange it was built in, probably in case of injury. The Chronicle said we hold the option on Los...probably goodbye. Also, for the picks, figure in 13 and 23 for now...that's ours and Milwaukee's. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
Those two pages, salarymin and salarymax, are very informative davo. It looks as if you factor in the chronicle's and realgm's (I assume the originator was the chronicle, not a separate source that both parties referenced b/c of jv's comments in the other thread) claim that Rogers has a t-opt, then the total potential cap space is closer to 26 mill ( your 28.5 - ( Langhi + Rogers )). Of course it's highly unlikely that Dream, Moochie, Bullard, Langhi, etc. won't be here next year... but it is interesting to see what the bottom line is that the Rockets could reach in a Webber emergency. Though ~16 million is very promising, it seems doubtful that Dream, Webber and Moochie could be signed outright. Sure Bullard could/would sign for the vet's minimum and Langhi's salary slot is only 500K, but something has to give. Would it be possible to squeeze Dream and Moochie (effectively) into 4 mil? I doubt it. Does Mo want to play in Sac? The ideal summer has to start on draft night w/ a drop in salary burden. Anything else decreases the chances of Webber and Dream this upcoming year... or more to the point, Webber. ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
HEB-Moochie has played here 2 years. Early Bird for him, he'll only be holding down about 600K. Would Dream take a hometown discount to the tune of 3.5 mill? ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
What am I talking about? If the current calculated salary min is $28.5M and Los has a t-opt, then the Rockets can get closer to $24M. $28.5 - renounced Los( 3.8M ) - renounced Langhi( 500K ) = ~24M. With a $43M salary cap, the Rockets would have $19M to pursue Webber and retain Moochie and Dream (before signing other players to min or vet min). Unfortunately, it sounds as if the Rockets won't have this problem... and they'll get to keep the same players they have now. ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
Sweet NIKE, I spaced the early bird for Moochie. Great, I got extra cap space though for the Rockets, so who do you want to keep? Los + Langhi or Shandon Anderson? ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
Achebe-Or get Chicago to take Walt for Miller and keep em all. I'd even free up their pick (reword it for 1 second rounder) in addition to Walt for Miller, who we can renounce. They'd be getting Walt for free, and he goes away when the season is over. A similar deal involving Chicago/Dan Marjele almost happened last year, where they'd send Hawkins to Miami, renounce Marjele who could sign back with Miami, to clear an extra 3-4 mill. Los/Langhi vs. Shandon is tough. Ideally, I'd see if it'd work Shandon/Langhi. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
Davo, got a replay late on saturday night, will also tape the Essendon v Collingwood Anzac Day blockbuster on Wednesday and then Richmond v Eagles on Friday night then post them off. Smeg ------------------ "Repression never did me any harm (I finally ceased to include "stop masturbating" as one of my guilt ridden New Year's resolutions, but that's a different topic)." Achebe - programmer by day, Mrs Palmers Husband by night
Oh Okay, that increases our chance to get Shandon and a big-name free agent a little(1.6 mil to be exact.) ------------------ Never Underestimate the Heart of a Champion
davo, It looks like the main differences between your numbers and those on RealGM are caused by different numbers for Williams, Rogers and Langhi. If you go by Patricia Bender's numbers, then RealGM is correct (or close) on Williams and Rogers. Here's the comparision: http://www.elliottcentral.com/salary_cap/compare.html Those numbers are pretty close to this analysis that I put together a while back: http://www.elliottcentral.com/salary_cap/cap_analysis.html [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited April 23, 2001).] [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited April 23, 2001).]
Did Williams and Rogers sign their contracts before the current CBA came into effect? If so, then the 12.5% raise thing is irrelevant because the contracts could be backloaded. ------------------ Founder and President of the Houston Homers Club(HHC) - Are you a homer? Join now! The Rockets will be NBA champions. Believe.
Traj See above - I don't think the exceptions are forfeited when we go below the cap. Davo, Here's the quote from FAQ Question 16: "This exception is only available to teams that are over the cap, or under the cap by less than the combined amount of their exceptions. If on August 1 a team is under the salary cap by more than the combined amount of their exceptions, or drops below this amount before using the mid-level exception, then they lose this exception" If we go under the cap, by more than the combined amount of our exceptions (just under $7M), then we lose the mid level and we can't get it back. ------------------
Did Williams and Rogers sign their contracts before the current CBA came into effect? If so, then the 12.5% raise thing is irrelevant because the contracts could be backloaded. It doesn't really matter. The previous CBA still contained a maximum salary increase from year to year. The only difference was that the number was fixed at 20%. Ewing and Drexler had the last contracts that contained a balloon payment in the final season. Those deals were signed two CBA's ago. That use to be a great way to beat the cap, but the previous CBA closed that hole. That's why Hakeem's current deal doesn't contain a balloon payment this year, even though it predates the current CBA. I think the main difference in davo's numbers is the fact that his salaries for Williams and Rogers don't agree with Bender or RealGM's numbers for THIS season. I'm pretty confident that Bender's numbers for 2000-2001 are correct. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited April 23, 2001).]
Aelliott, Bender's Salaries don't agree with her own numbers. I don't think we can really use Bender and ReadGM as standards, for instance, I originally emailed her the Cato numbers and Mobley numbers that Davo and I agreed on, after doing some reverse math. We should make our own for this team, which is what Davo tries to do. It looks like Bender has been changing some numbers on us. Bender herself says much of her numbers are hard to come by relying on local contributors who send her newspaper articles, and RealGM pretty much just borrows her numbers. Bender's Numbers for Rogers don't Add Up There is no way Carlos can make $2.3m next year (his last) and add up to $13.3m over five years. She has him at: $1.9m base It is mathematically impossible for Bender to get Carlos to $13.3m over 5 yrs with that base unless his raise is 20%/yr, which she doesn't show, or he has a signing bonus, and she forgot to add that in. First let me change the raise to 20%, although I don't see how she makes that mistake. <pre><font face="courier"> Base w/$380K raise '98 $1,900,000 '99 $2,280,000 '00 $2,660,000 '01 $3,040,000 '02 $3,420,000 --------------------------------- $13,300,000 There you have $13.3m on the nose with a 20% raise starting at $1.9m. But, how could she mess up that badly. </pre></font> My next post shows how a Signing Bonus might have produced a higher salary hit than her web site, but less than above (since the signing bonus effects the 1st year). [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 24, 2001).]
Another solution for Bender is to consider that she got the raise close, but failed to calculate a bonus. The reason for the bonus would have been for the Carlos's team to have a smaller cap hit at the end, by having a larger first payments and less raise. To guess the raise if a 25% bonus existed we must figure what number times 125% equals $13.3m. 1. That number is $10,666,666. 2. A 25% bonus of that equals $2,666,666. 3. So, that equals $533,333 per year as salary hit. This gives us the following recalculations of his raise plus bonus hit per year. <pre><font face="courier"> Base w/raise Bonus hit '98 $1,900,000 + $533,333 '99 $2,016,666 + $533,333 '00 $2,133,333 + $533,333 '01 $2,249,999 + $533,333 '02 $2,366,666 + $533,333 --------------------------------- $10,666,666 + $2,625,000 That raise is $166,666 per year or nearly 8.8% simple interest, which is about what I'd guess is close to compounded inflation. Compare those yearly cap hits versus the post above. </pre></font> You'll find if you adjust the bonus, the raise will go up. Either way, Bender is most likely correct about Total Contract than anything else, but probably can't research your yearly cap its has closely as we at cc.net can for her. What do you say guys? Are her numbers accurate. And since RealGM largely copies her???? [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 24, 2001).]
HP, I'm pretty sure that Patricia Bender's numbers are based on the salaries reported by USA Today each year. I've always found her numbers to be pretty accurate. I'd have to think that the yearly salaries from USA Today are more accurate than the total contract numbers. I don't know of a reliable source for total contract numbers. Also, I'm not sure of how the previous CBA handled signing bonuses. I can't say for sure that they were evenly distributed across the life of the contract. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited April 24, 2001).]
I think Moochie could be squeezed in after that using an early bird contract, although I’m not sure whether he has earned those rights since his first year with the Rockets was a partial year. davo, Moochie does qualify for the Early Bird, even though he didn't play two full seasons. Here's the language in the CBA: Article 1, item (q) Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agent" means a Veteran Free Agent who, prior to becoming a Veteran Free Agent, played under one or more Player Contracts covering some or all of each of the two preceding Seasons, and who: (i) either exclusively played with his Prior Team during such two Seasons, or, if he played for more than one Team during such period, changed Teams only (x) by means of assignment, or (y) by signing with his Prior Team during the first of the two Seasons; or (ii) became a Veteran Free Agent on July 1, 1998 and played with his Prior Team for some or all of each of the preceding two Seasons, and who did not change Teams during such two Seasons by signing with his Prior Team as a Veteran Free Agent. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited April 24, 2001).]
