David Hasselhoff claims he had a hand in Berlin Wall falling

I don't need any generic links about Walesa and Gorbachev since I grew up watching them on TV every day. I have met Jelzin in person. I grew up in the country that was divided by the Cold War. I was there when the wall fell.

Show me the quotes which support your assertion.

You posting a bunch of generic stuff which is not relevant to the exact point you were trying to make is an indication that you really don't have enough evidence to back up your statement. These links are not relevant to the exact statement you are trying to back up. I am almost shocked that you are trying to sell them as such....this coming from someone who is a university researcher?!

I am not disputing at all that especially Walesa and also the Pope had a big role in Cold War history, but your statement that these exact four people are "usually recognized by world historians/journalists as being most responsible for the fall of the wall/end of Cold War" was just pulled out of your ass and failed to impress.

What about Shevardnadse, Genscher, George Schultz...many others...as I said, ranking them is silly, and so was your attempt at coming up with some "quiz" where you thought you would not get called on it. Well, you did, you could not back up your claim and now you are mad .

Here is just one quote for you which is relevant to your little quizmaster question:

CNN Moderator: Our guest, John Lewis Gaddis, is a professor of history at Yale University and the author of numerous books on the Cold War - including, most recently, "We Now Know: Rethinking the Cold War."

CNN Moderator: Helmut Kohl was voted out of office today - what will be his legacy as among the last of the Cold War leaders?

John Lewis Gaddis: Kohl's legacy will be that he presided over the reunification of Germany in 1990. Few people, even a year earlier, thought that would be possible by peaceful means. Kohl, however, together with George Bush, will get the credit for having pushed this through, and for having persuaded Gorbachev to accept it.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/guides/debate/chats/gaddis/

 

Come on, there is not even ONE quote by any historian you can bring up for something that you just proclaimed:

"The four individuals usually recognized by world historians/journalists as being most responsible for the fall of the wall/end of Cold War"

"Usually recognized" means to me that the majority of world historians/journalists needs to support that statement as you made it.

You cannot even find one that supports it.

"Awareness of the generality of opinion" my ass.

You said something that is incorrect and try to defend it with "awareness of the generality of opinion".

This is laughable.

 

Okay, I am going to let you off the hook with regards to finding sources for your statement, because you have already embarrassed yourself enough there, not being able to find one. And you are right, even if you found a few who said something like that, it would still not prove your statement insofar as "usually recognized".

So let's forget about that.

But...forgetting about the existence or non-existence of sources...in your mind as a historian, did the Pope have more of an influence in bringing the Berlin wall down than Helmut Kohl?

 

By the way, unrelated, but your bamaslammer quote in your signature is an instant classic .

 

I'll answer your question since MacBeth is busy looking through history books right now...

I think we got a little too serious .

 

Yeah .

By the way, you "lost" that argument according to Godwin's law:

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made in a thread the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups.

http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/g/go/godwin_s_law.html

 

Just keep patting yourself on the back...so who let you guys in?

 

Good to see that you have read up a little bit on the subject in the meantime.

Even though you still fail to have a full grasp of it, at least you are educating yourself.

Plus, you have admitted that you cannot back up your previous silly statement about the Pope and Walesa being among "those four usually recognized by world historians/journalists as being most responsible for the fall of the wall/end of Cold War".

"Gorbachev's accession to power in Moscow in March 1985 was a sine qua non"...what are you quoting that for? Has anyone disputed the role of Gorbachev?

Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.