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David Carr

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by Fegwu, Nov 22, 2004.

  1. Fegwu

    Fegwu Contributing Member

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    I am begining to have my doubts about his ability to lead us to the promise land. I look around the NFL and I see so many outstanding young QBs from Drew Brees to Big Ben carrying their teams and garnering rave reviews. But in our Carr, I see greatness this week (at least potentially) and mediocrity the next - can the real David Carr please stand up. I assume this topic is one the many that may have been beaten up on various forums and talk radio shows but I want to sample your thoughts here.

    We have invested heavily in him long term and I do not expect us to turn on him this quickly. The heartening news and view point is that you do not have to have a Mike Vick to win it all as evident in the Baltimore Ravens championship year. Obviously our team have a lot of holes to feel but how long do you think we should give to Carr before we start demanding excellence from him? Some semblance of consistency will suffice.

    I have reviewed a few stats on him and other QBs lately and David Carr's are descent - in the middle of the pack. Should we just settle for that alone and live with it? I will like to hear your view of him and maybe what he needs to do to seperate himself and leave this mediocrity that is fast encroaching.


    Shallom.
     
  2. DieHard Rocket

    DieHard Rocket Contributing Member

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    Like any quarterback, he needs an effective running game to open up the passing game. Domanick Davis and his 3.0 ypc aren't going to cut it. I'm not quite sure whether it is the lackluster o-line/zone blocking or if it's Davis' fault. I think Davis can be an effective back.

    But I don't think Carr is the problem.
     
  3. Phillyrocket

    Phillyrocket Member

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    No offense but I absolutely hate when people compare Carr to Harrington, Big Ben, or even Eli Manning. All of those QB's stepped into established teams that already had years worth of drafts, players that had played together, etc. Carr was asked to lead a bunch of practice squad guys with no running game, a former #3 reciever as his #1 option (Bradford) and well we all know about the OL. Ben on the other hand has a great group of recievers, two quality RBs, great defense, great OL, and a coaching staff that has been together for years. There is no comparison. If you put Ben with the Texans from year one he would look just as bad as Carr did. If you put Carr as a rookie in the Steelers this year, I bet you'd get similar results as the Steelers are now. The Texans in their third year do not have the talent of the Steelers and trust me Ben isn't carrying the team. He's playing within the system, avoiding mistakes and relying on the running game and a great defense.

    Carr is only as good as the players around him allow him to be. I mean he can't block the DL throw a pass and catch it himself. Palmer needs to open up the playbook and realize for whatever reason the running game ain't working this season.
     
  4. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    i recuse myself. i can't be objective on this topic!
     
  5. VooDooPope

    VooDooPope Love > Hate
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    I think the play calling is as much to blame for what seems like his ineffectiveness at times.
     
  6. JunkyardDwg

    JunkyardDwg Contributing Member

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    David Carr is the least of the Texans problems... in my view he's performed consistently all season (w/ the exception of the utterly horrendous Colts game I believe). His QB rating has been much improved, especially in the 4th quarter. I think he's progressing just as expected given the situation he's been put in (at the helm of an expansion team). Drew Brees, he's stunned a lot of people, before his breakout year this season he's shown plenty of mediocrity. And Ben, like's been said above, he's hardly carried that Steeler team. And as for Eli, well in his first NFL start he got a 6yd TD pass, a couple of an interceptions and a loss. If I'm not mistaken, and I could be, David Carr did just a little bit better than that in his first start. ;)

    But I think Carr could reach the land of greatness if given a good OL and a good running game, which have been suspect this season (again).... plus once the offense get a little more creative and less predictable which its slowly starting to do... you'll see him improve even more.
     
  7. rrj_gamz

    rrj_gamz Contributing Member

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    Not 100% accurate...He is some of the problem, but not all...Carr can't block or catch or run...He can't rush the passer or make plays on D either...If next year is the same as this, Dom will be gone...
     
  8. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    David Carr is one of the bright spots of the season. I think just about beverybody, from coaches to outsiders, are impressed with him. His TD/INT ratio is not that great, but if you take away the Indianapolis debacle, it is 10-5. If you take out the first game in addition to that, it is 10-3. And it is clear that this team is still struggling with the problems of an expansion franchise, with it's shallow depth and inconsistency, and that may be hampering him.
     
  9. rockets-#1

    rockets-#1 Contributing Member

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    I hate people ragging on Carr. He is doing great considering the situation he was put in (commanding an expansion team from scratch). Phillyrocket hit it right on the buzzer. Carr's numbers would be a great deal better if he was on an established team. He has a ton of talent, he has great poise, his character is excellent, he's got a cannon; I have a man crush on the guy. David Carr is awesome! He and Andre Johnson are the best things this team has got going for it. Please don't hate on DC, he is DEFINITELY NOT the problem. Our offensive coordinator is a big p**** cat. What the hell do you expect Carr to do when Palmer calls for RUN-RUN-PASS 9 times out of 10 with our starting RB averaging 3.0 YPC. Please
     
  10. Fegwu

    Fegwu Contributing Member

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    Interesting takes so far all around.

    The issue of play calling is one I 'd like to touch on a bit. How has the play calling affected him? More or less I see the oft conservative and questionable play calling a reflection of reality - that maybe the Offensive Co-ordinator and Coach Capers lack full confidence in the full range of Mr. Carr's abilities (just playing devils advocate).

    I whole heartedly agree that Carr is the least of our problems but that does not mean that this topic is not valid issue of discourse. I liken David Carr to Yao Ming. They both have great potential but I feel they can do much better. They are in their 3rd year now and I believe in Carr's case (although the running game has dissapointed us) he has not showed me enough save for serviceability and just okay-ability. If that is enough for us to win - so be it.
     
  11. JPM0016

    JPM0016 Contributing Member

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    I disagree, overall Carr has had a solid season elevating him to a respectable level. You won't see him reach his full potential under the offensive line is addressed.
     
  12. RocketManJosh

    RocketManJosh Contributing Member

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    You mention Drew Brees as an outstanding young QB ... Hate to tell you this, but Carr has played twice as well as Brees played last year, and look what Brees is doing now.

    I think he has done enough to earn the chance to continue for at least another year or two.
     
  13. RocketFan007

    RocketFan007 Contributing Member

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    I agree that Carr needs a good running game to really be able to take the next step, but I disagree about Davis. He was great last season, but I really don't see him as any more than a third-down back, which is exactly what he was drafted for.

    I know that Cedric Benson and Cadillac Williams are getting all the run for RBs in the draft this year, but I'd love Ronnie Brown to be the Texans back next season. He's been overshadowed a little as the #2 back at Auburn, but the guy has great size and speed, as well as good hands out of the backfield. He'll likely be a late first round pick, so if the Texans could trade down a little, gain an extra pick or two, and still grab Brown, they could spend the rest of the picks going after defensive help, remember we get the Cowboys third round pick this year from the Henson trade.
     
  14. Lil Francis

    Lil Francis Member

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    I think the biggest propblem with the Texans is coaching. That 3-4 defense is just a waste of time when you have average linebackers. If we don't win more than 6 games this season we should get rid of Capers and Palmer, switch to a 4-3, and find a legit pass rusher on each end. This team will never be the team it should be if we try to make the linebackers we have now into the linebackers the Steelers had in the mid 90's. Thats like if Mike Martz tried to run his high scoring offense with the Bears, or 49ers. It won't work because the talent level is not there.
     
  15. Stack24

    Stack24 Contributing Member

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    One thing i see is that Carr has the potential and shows that he is a good quarterback and can be a leader. The problem really lies in how the offense and coaches run the system.

    They restrict him so much that he not able to make defenses pay or just play to his full ability.

    If you look at Big Ben for instance the guy is given the green light to make plays happen and gets play calls that will stretch defenses and give him a chance to make big plays.

    Our offense is not like that. Every defense that comes in here knows we are not going to try and go for big plays so the defense sits back on Carr not allowing him to do anything.

    Then the blitz him left and right cause we have no running game to help him one big. Pittsburgh has a running game that really helps Ben out.

    Defenses know our run sucks so they don't even care and that makes it so hard for someone like Carr to get a chance to make a big play.
     
  16. LongTimeFan

    LongTimeFan Contributing Member

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    I almost started this...

    I have doubts about Carr too. I see him becoming a pretty good QB, but never a true leader. When he was mic'd up, you could listen to him on the sidelines. He just didn't sound like a leader. Payton, Culpepper -- those are two right now that stick out as true leaders, someone who will chew out a teammate if he steps out of line, or gather up an offense and get them all together.

    Like Yao, I don't think Carr has that mean streak in him
     
  17. JunkyardDwg

    JunkyardDwg Contributing Member

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    Well for one, those two are veterans, so wait till Carr has as much as experience as them and then we'll see. And two I haven't forgotten back in year one when Carr jumped in the middle of a skirmish coming to the defense of his OL... if that isnt being a leader I don't know what is...

    You can't really liken Carr to Yao cause it just doesn't make much sense... Carr has never shown he is soft and unwilling to lead the offense... plus Carr has demonstrated - for the most part - consistency each week. Maybe he isn't producing stellar numbers like Ben or Byron Leftwich, Vick, etc.... and the thought has entered my mind why he hasnt been as good as those guys..but again, those are pretty well established teams.. Texans still quite aren't there yet. Plus, different qbs evolve at different paces. Carr will be great...and I think he's pretty much right where he needs to be..and next season will probably be the telling sign...cause that's the year i think the whole team is expecting playoffs or bust.
     
  18. LongTimeFan

    LongTimeFan Contributing Member

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    I didn't mean to call him soft as much as I was pointing out that he doesn't have that mean-ness you need to be an elite QB. Maybe it was just his voice, but he truely sounded like a girl trying to fire up his offense on the sidelines. I could not believe how unmotivated or fired he sounded -- it wasn't what I was expecting.

    And this coming from a big Texans fan... I think he will be a good QB, but not one you'll talk about years after he retires like we all had hoped.
     
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    This was the first Texans game I've seen this year. ANyway, I think Carr is just fine. Any semblance of a running game would be immmensely helpful - Davis to me should be written off as a bit of a fluke last year and not a long term solution. Lineman that can open up some holes would help too. Zach Wiegert has been a perennial journeymn in this league - no way he should be anything but a back up in this league.

    And speaking of lines, a defense that could get some pressure on occassion would be nice.
     
  20. tierre_brown

    tierre_brown Contributing Member

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    What's weird is that I always had my doubts about Carr before this year (didn't think he was a franchise quarterback, just a resilient QB that could comeback from 76 sacks in one season). He didn't seem to know when to take some heat off the ball, wasn't able to throw the lob/fade, didn't seem to have the feel for the pocket; the list goes on and on.

    For the most part, DC has been outstanding this year. Considering the fact that we are in a conservative offensive scheme with little to no running game, he has been putting up numbers. Not just that, when they actually let him loose, usually during the 4th when we're trailing, he's been simply sizzling. If we had a more open playbook (yeah, Nick, I agree our O-Line sucks, but I still think we air it out a littlre more), his numbers would be right up there with some of the "young" marquee QBs.

    Not just his physical talents, but I like his quiet leadership. I like how they mic'd him up during the GB game: "we gone score on this one" "don't worry about the D, yall are doin fine, it's our fault, we should be puttin up points". Those comments, though few and seemingly insignificant, show me that he can be the quiet, lead by example heart and soul type that we need.

    BTW- Is Drew Brees considered a young QB still? And isn't this the only year he's actually done well?
     

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