David Carr should be traded..........

People do realize that Carr is always the 2nd rushing QB in the league right?

 

and nowhere in my (i prefer "rip-roaringly hilarious" to "cute") response did i make that implication.

but you can't have your cake and eat it, too, MM - you don't think david carr is going to win here, right? so we need to cut our losses? and to that end, oh, by the way, vy should be the qb because he's a winner. am i warm?

no one with an iq above functioning idiot expects immediate results with any aspect of this franchise.

why does the qb have to be "new"? if they developed carr (which they never have), would you be ok with that? or will you still "hate" that he's their qb?

right, more sheep-sounding vy blather. got it.

here's the thing, though, MM: kubiak sees that upside in carr. he had a chance to take vy and jettison carr, or just jettison carr, and he chose not to. considering it's the FIRST time in carr's 4.5 years that anyone within the organization has shown him any support, i'm willing to give kubiak the benefit of the doubt.

and so far, he's been ok.

not sure you could answer this objectively, but say this was carr's first year. it's not, i know - there's an inherent problem in pushing the reboot button five years in, i get that. but just for a second, assume it is - how would you rate him thus far?

because that's how i'm taking this; years 1-4 don't exist. not carr's fault - i blame mcnair, casserly and capers; moron all of them. and next year, when they turnover even more of the roster, it's gonna look like '02-'05 didn't. casserly and capers screwed this thing up SOOOOOOOO massively, i'm willing to give kubiak some space to try and right the ship.

it's like he took over a losing college program that then got the death penalty.

 

LOL. Priceless post.

 

Exactly how I'm looking at it as well.

Of course, the people arguing with you are going to come back and say, "But, years 1-4 did happen... you can't erase that... you can't erase the damage to Carr's psyche (suddenly, everybody's an amateur psychologist), you can't erase the "loser mentality" that goes along with Carr (so if you lose 4 years in a row, for a team that never had anything to begin with, you're a loser for life)... its all just another excuse for Carr (or its a fact)."

Seriously... there's way too much evidence that years 1-4 were the most worthless years of any franchise likely in NFL history (the new Cleveland Browns are close, given their current state). Thus, how can you evaluate ANYBODY on this team, with any sort of credibility, justifiability, or accuracy?

When you have only 9 out of the 21 picks remaining that Charley had in the first four rounds during his tenure (meaning the rest either failed, or were traded away in failed trades)... that's all the evidence I need to see that EVERYBODY gets a fresh start. EVERYBODY... Carr, AJ, the O-line, the D-line, the coaching staff, the announcers, the ground crew, the roof operaters, the vending machine staff... EVERYBODY.

 

That's a little personal there... ease up a little- the following are counter points, be reasonable.

1. VY is not a prospect because he is a 'winner' but because he has great athletic ability, shown he was a very good college passer and consistently made big plays in college. - His college career was similar to Montana's
2. There are lots of people who expected immediate improvement of the Texans record. Let's wait and see.
3. To say Carr was never developed is unfair. He is playing to the same level he played in 2004 with fewer sacks and fewer mistakes YTD. No one expects him to make the kind of strides at this stage that a rookie QB makes in the first 3 seasons given playing time. Granted on a better team Carr could certainly get better results. But I think as far as his development he was just as good as his first pro game against Dallas as he was his last pro game against Dallas, think about it.
4. Developing VY is a separate issue from developing Carr. One is a rookie and one is a 4 yr vet. All the talk about Carr got poor coaching might be true (hard to prove) but when the team was 7-9 in their 3rd season everyone was shouting how on track everything was. Remember poor coaching is just one thing to blame like- trade the QB. It all comes down to on the field performance. The things I don't like about Carr are not play calling or the talent around him. It is the way he handles the QB position.
5. If this was Carr's first yr. I would rate him very high for a rookie.
6. I'm willing to give Kubiak a chance without a doubt he has brought change and I think has shown some reason for hope. I don't think Kubiak did the right thing in the long run by endorsing Carr but I understand why he did it. And I think Carr is living up to what Kubiak expected to a point. He is playing solid ball. The problem I see is that Carr is not a playmaker at the position. He doesn't sustain drives and he doesn't make big plays. Kubiak and the rest of us will find out eventually if Carr is the right QB to take the team to the playoffs.

In summary, if Carr takes us to the playoffs I will be pleasantly surprised.

 

it's sad, really. i wrote an article about manning and palmer. here's what i said about manning:

and here's what i said about palmer:

now consider what carr's had around him. james allen, jonathan wells, stacey mack, jabar gaffney, corey bradford, no tight end, and a list of mediocre and worse OL that makes my stomach ache to recall.

no, no - vandermeer, or whatever his name is, remains a douchetard and should be taken behind a barn and put out of his vegetable-like existence; he sucks hard.

 

montana was a third round draft pick passed over by every nfl team twice; they weren't similiar.

and carr wasn't some II-A r****d; the guy put up better numbers as a senior than vy did last year.

frankly, those people are morons. or brain dead. they were 2-14 last year.

think about what? that he randomly played as poorly sunday as he did in some arbitraily-chosen game four years ago? dids brett favre not develop because his last game was as awful as his first game?

carr's making strides after being left for dead by the organization. it's the first time in four years he hasn't been surrounded by morons and scrubs.

i wasn't. he was awful in a mid-season, four game stretch against '04 playoff teams in which the texans were outscored, something like, 125-47.

carr regressed tremendously the final 9 weeks of the 2004 season when the schedule got harder; he was a loooooong way from being fully developed. unfortunatley, our organization was too blind to see this.

neither was troy aikman; that's why they called irvin "the playmaker." qbs are rarely "playmakers" without someone else to help carry that burden. no qb wins by his lonesome; name a qb who won and i'll name a great coach, rb, wr, te, or ol, or some combination that that guy played with.

 

This should not regress to Carr versus VY. 1) that opp is lone gone, 2) the polarization of VY on here is unfair to Carr.

Jake Plummer had a high 60s (very poor) passer rating with the Cards (6 years), he has a high 80s (excellent) on with the Broncos (4 years). Yet Plummer is the same QB (if fact his best Cards years were early), it is his support that is different. Now most of Plummer's passes are in situations opponents have to play run 1st and punting isn't too bad because his D keeps him ahead (he doesn't have to force things).

I'd rather have Carr (75 rating in 6 years on a bad team) personally, and I think only a handful of QBs would make the Texans better or make their prospects better. I don't think he will ever be able to truly carry a team like Brady or McNabb, but get some kind of running game and defense and Carr has a great chance for the pro bowl.

 

I don't think getting rid of Carr is the answer at this point.
I have only pointed out what I don't like about him.

And my biggest beef is that we had a shot at VY and didn't pull the trigger.

So for me it is a VY vs. Carr until I get over it.

In the end I will know if it was a mistake as you all will also, when both QB's finish their careers.

It is all about winning in the NFL, no matter what excuses you make.

 

For the umpteenth time, those are not excuses.

I get sick of seeing this uniformed BS take.

NOONE--Not one person--has offered ANY compelling evidence to counter the FACTS that have caused this organization to suck so hard.

The FACTS indicate that DCarr is the least of this organization's worries.

Those aren't "excuses".

 

settle down-

the 'excuses' comment didn't have to do with Carr in particular.
What I mean is you can blame coaching, management, talent, injuries, individual players, etc etc and all the excuses don't get you anywhere.

When it is all said and done the team that wins has what it takes.

The Oilers had all kind of excuses. But Pitts went to the Super Bowl.

Indy has excuses but they don't have a Lombardi trophy.

All the passion for the Texans is understandable but I don't blame DC for their record.

I BLAME CASSERLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that's my excuse

 

Carr is worse than vick??? Really???
Carr is worse than vince young???? REALLY???
Carr is better than Roethlisberger????? ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS?????
Carr is better than Phillip Rivers????? HUH??????
CARR IS BETTER THAN ELI FREAKING MANNING???? ARE YOU RETARTED???
Carr is better than Matt Leinart??? HOW?????
And explain how Roethlisberger is the most overrated person in the league. Humm 15-1 in his first season and leads them to 2 postseason appearances in 2 seasons. Oh, and need i mention that he is the youngest QB to do that... EVER!!!! And yet Carr is better than him
Since we are talking about quarterbacking skills, he is obviously better than vick and young, who are punt returners that you are putting behind center. i'm pretty sure if you put jerome mathis in at quarterback, you could get the same production out of him as you would with vick or young.
Phillip Rivers only sat for a few years (something that the texans should have done with carr) and he is only having a fantastic season.
i dont even need to say anything about eli manning because that was just a stupid statement.

 

At least there is someone else in houston that has a brain.
"OH MARIO WILLIAMS IS A BUST"
he has played 5 nfl games. get a clue.

 

thank god clutch is here to respond, otherwise i'd be banging my head against the keyboard right now.

 

Carr doesn't suck, but I wouldn't call him good. He is an average QB. Nothing wrong with that, unless his salary is too high for the typical average QB. I have no idea what they usually make........

 

Do you have trouble reading?? The exact quote in my 2nd group is "Carr may or may not be better than....". I even went on to list a number of players I'd probably choose 1st, ML, Ben, Eli, Leftwich, Rivers and Smith, but it would not surprise me if Carr ever gets in as favorable situtation as those guys he would be equal or better.

Like I said about Big Ben, you have to look at his situation. The Stealers won the superbowl when he was awefull (versus Seattle). They made it to the AFC championship when he was flat aweful against the Jets. I think he is very good at times, and yes I'd roll with him over Carr at this point, but Big Ben is not a top 5 QB yet by a mile, and in no way deserves the #2 jersey sales (now behind the overrated Bush). That is why he is overrated. He won the superbowl more like Dilfer and Brad Johnson won the superbowl, on the backs of great defense and a running game, nothing like how Marino brought his team to the superbowl, since you brought him up. Put Carr on the Stealers and do they have a superbowl victory, yes so long as he tackles Roger Harper, Big Ben's most important contribution.

Also, do you know Eli has only an equal passer rating than Carr despite have a light years better supporting cast? Eli's 1st year was far worse than any year Carr has ever had. I have also seen the Giants lose a lot of games the last two years they would have won had they had merely decent QB play--if you watched the Giants much you would know this and realize at times they were trying to do anything but have Eli Manning pass the ball. Now Eli is finally looking not totally sucky this year, actually he looks good so far, and he is younger than Carr, so yeah I'd take him over Carr. But as with Big Ben, Eli is more hype than performance, and he has been protected from criticism from truly atrocious performances (including playoff games) as another golden boy.

Finally, last I checked ML has .000 winning percentage (0-2), if you think think team winning % is the end all be all. ML certainly has a weaker arm than most of the above (except maybe Brees), but ML has a lot of confidence and is very football smart, no question. Yes I would have a tough choices between Carr and ML, probably ML because of age, but I am not ready to say ML at his peak (ML may already be at his peak because he is so football smart already) will be better than Carr at his.

Rivers has 6 games he has played in the NFL and is blessed with a gifted offense and tremendous defense. He hasn't had to win games, just not lose them. Would I take him over Carr to build a team around, yes (in fact I thought Rivers going into the draft was the most impressive among Eli and Big Ben--I thought the Chargers got a steal), but I might be wrong on who is ultimately the better player by not considering supporting cast around them.

The 1st group includes those who I would take over Carr, either slam dunk better (e.g., Brady, McNabb, Peyton, Hassellbeck, Palmer, etc) and a couple I just think have too much more potential. Vick is a little of both, he is constantly underrated in his impact on the game, just look at ATLs win loss record with and without him over that period. Vick has issues, he won't be a top 5 QB overall until he improves his passing, but his impact on the bottom line (winning) is easily in the top 10 among QBs. Young I simply think has too much potential, and I have seen nothing to persuade me otherwise based on preseason and this season's playing time so far. Of course this is pure speculation here, but yes I would not hesitate from building with VY over Carr (not because he is already better, he would not be starting on Carr's team, but because he is younger and his upside is tops IMO.

So in the end there is like 12-15 QBs I'd rather have over Carr because they are older but great or their youth/potential is just higher. This isn't a question of who is better right now, otherwise I'd take Jake Delhomme over most of the above guys. The Texans have a solid QB with a lot of years left and with some room to still grow. When they balance what they have now and future needs the Texans are better than half of the league. I can't say that about many other parts of that team and you might try fixing that before making a decision about Carr.

 

Rex Grossman should be traded.

 

But hey, he is 6-0, even better than Big Ben's best season. David Carr couldn't do better, right.