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David Cameron: Britain's EU Referendum to be held June 23

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Feb 20, 2016.

  1. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    A majority in Northern Ireland and Scotland want to stay in the EU. In Northern Ireland's case, Irish nationalists definitely want to stay (since the EU forces the UK to stay connected to Ireland) while the Unionist camp is split.

    In Scotland, Scottish nationalists feel the same way and vote to stay in the EU for the most part.

    Wales seems to be drifting towards leaving. Welsh nationalists want to stay but Wales also shares many of the characteristics of rural England. Parts of England and Wales also have traits that resemble the American rust belt and those areas also favor leaving.

    England will probably vote to leave but as you point out, cities tend to support staying while rural and industrial areas support leaving. The same anger that Trump keeps inciting is happening in the UK as well. And in the UK's case, Conservatives and Labour are split. Labour still has a strong base in industrial and unionized areas of the UK but many of those areas are suffering from high unemployment and feel that a vote to leave is a vote to protect jobs. The Conservatives also have a split in that the professional class of the Conservative base (for example Conservatives in London who work in the financial services industry) want to stay.

    The whole debate over the EU has created schisms in both Labour and the Conservatives (although the Conservatives are facing the brunt of it). UKIP (the party that pretty much solely campaigns on leaving the EU and limiting immigration) will come out ahead as well the various nationalist parties in Scotland, Wales and to a much lesser extent, Northern Ireland. Scotland and Wales both have active nationalist parties. Northern Ireland kind of has its own weird party structure thanks to the continuous fight between the unionists and nationalists.

    Regardless of the result, the two party system in the UK has been falling apart for sometime and this cements that result. All of the parties with the exception of Labour and Conservatives will gain support in coming elections.
     
    #61 geeimsobored, Jun 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
  2. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Thanks for the info. The U.S. needs more than a 2 party system. Trump and Bernie Sanders has moved the needle on that a lot this election ;)
     
  3. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Having options like Trump, Bernie, and Hillary is enough to move the needle into the arm.
     
  4. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    Divisive politics always create a space for these types of events. The Conservatives in the UK railed against immigrants and the EU since Blair and Labour were in power and now they're finally reaping with the sowed. You can't inspire so much anger and then backtrack and call your own base crazy.

    The Conservatives are going to have a hell of a time managing their caucus even if the remain vote wins. This is a complete mess. Cameron was banking on a +10% win when he set the date for a vote. The UK is a damn mess at the moment and this vote just exposed everything.
     
  5. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    When you put something like sovereignty on a ballot, is it surprising that it got support? I mean people can try to dismiss it as xenophobia, but honestly, how many Americans would be fine with their laws being written in Brussels by non elected bureaucrats? If your laws can be overruled by those written by foreigners who you have no say over, do you even really live in a democracy anymore?

    I'm not sure about all of those pushing one way or the other, but ideologically I have to support Britain leaving the EU. Recessions happen, even if I knew the result would be a recession, I'd vote for sovereignty every time.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    But that's the point. It never should've even made it to the ballot. The Conservatives won the election on the same fear mongering of the EU and immigrants that they're now arguing against. The referendum was a concession from Cameron to save himself from being destroyed by his own caucus. Cameron and the Tory leadership created the conditions for this.

    The UK has its issues but Cameron squarely campaigned on the EU and immigration being a problem and its no shocker that many of his supporters want out of the EU. He created the conditions for this. So to watch him defend the EU is comical. He's a joke of a leader and he should lose his job regardless of the result.

    But at this point, brexit appears to be on course for a win (unless they eke out a win like the Quebec vote in the 90s) so Cameron is definitely on his way out.
     
  7. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    Guess I can afford to visit London
     
  8. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Why do you say that? I'm assuming because of the predicted currency exchange rates changing ?
     
  9. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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  10. dc rock

    dc rock Contributing Member

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    ****ing with my money, my kids' money, my grandkids' money because these cowards fear brown people.
     
  11. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    There are actually a lot of brown people voting to leave. It's more about fear of Eastern Europeans.
     
  12. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Your information is absolutely horrible.
     
  13. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Leave looks like it's going to win. Just wow!
     
  14. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Yeah I looked earlier when I started posting in this thread. It was at 5% then. London is an expensive city, I'm not sure a 10%-20% change would really do much in my opinion. That's why I asked haha
     
  15. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    I'm not saying its a majority but there are a fair amount. I'm sure a majority would vote to stay. However, I do personally know Indians that want to leave. It's not totally unreasonable. Many Indians are multi-generational at this point and dont see any value in the EU. If you're a local shopkeeper in some northern English town, I can see why you would vote to leave.

    Certainly not based on statistics but my point was that the fear of immigration wasn't about brown people. It was about EU immigrants from Eastern Europe.

    On a side note, you seem to make very angry posts and I don't understand why.
     
  16. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Calling out your posts is angry now? Whatever. Go back to spreading project fear.
     
  17. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    If you aren't pushing the narrative that those who want to leave are doing so out of racism and xenophobia then you are horrible apparently.
     
  18. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    There are a variety of reasons to want to leave. I sympathize with people in England who are facing a rust belt like situation. England is going through a collapse of manufacturing and an economy evolving to service and technology that leave out tons of people.

    I'm only mad at Cameron for playing up the fear of immigrants and the EU and then turning around and trying to campaign in favor of the EU and a preservation of the open borders concept. You can't have it both ways.
     
  19. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Oh I know, on most issues there are a variety of reasons to be on either side....but apparently some think you are horrible if you don't spout the propaganda of the side they are on.
     
  20. dback816

    dback816 Member

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    Brexit still leading with almost 55% reporting now

    This is actually happening
     

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