It was when Stoudamire was supposed to be the greatest guard ever while with the Raptors. Elie was mentioned as was Maloney. Also, Cato was supposed to be traded initially from Portland to Toronto. Here's a site that covers it pretty well: http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/2955/trade.html It also has a link (no longer valid) to Clutch City Online at the bottom!
Nothing? How about postseason appearences, which don't grow on trees like in the NBA? I'm not sure what you're whining about. The Astros have a strong farm system to make midseason rentals with good players while holding on to the Berkmans and the Oswalts. That is what intelligent mid-market teams do. Sure it hurts not having Garcia but I'll take RJ on my rotation into the playoffs any day and for just about any cost. It didn't work out thanks to Kevin Brown, Sterling Hitchcock and Jim freakin' Leyritz but it was a fantastic gamble. For reference, the RJ trade happened in 1998 at the trade deadline. The Clemens fiasco happened in the summer of 1999. Johnson had already signed with Arizona when the trade talks with former Toronto moron...err...GM Gordon Ash took place, so there was never a possibilty of them playing in Houston together. Clemens was still under contract with the Blue Jays for one more year. His agents wanted a new contract for TONS before any trade could take place. In essence Hunsicker had to pay $10 million per season, a four year deal I think, for a washed up pitcher while giving up at least two top prospects. He did the smart thing and told the Hendricks brothers off in a news conference. Both moves were great. Clemens is a strikeout pitcher with a big attitude. Whoopie. He's not Ryan. As a Yankee his ERA has been around 4. Is a pitcher with an ERA around 4 worth 15% of the teams budget? Nope. You also bash Hunsicker for not wanting to give up on Elarton and Hidaglo for Clemens. Well Elarton had a magic arm. Poor guy just blew it out. If you could have forseen that, please give me some stock advice. His arm was just as good as Wade Milller and Roy Oswalt's. When Hunsicker knew that Scott wouldn't materialize to what was projected anytime, he shipped him off to Colorado for Astacio to compete in the stetch drive.(And the B grade Astacio p[erformed better as an Astros than the A grade Clemens did) Then Hidalgo? Common. That guy played a solid CF and boy his 2000 season was incredible proving Astro management correct in their decision. Back in 1999, did you know that he would have problems with his kness and that he'd increse his weight? The main reason why the past 7 years the Astros have been a force is largely in thanks to Hunsicker. In general Carroll Dawson gets the big names while Huniscker gets the big production. Gerry....you da man!
I was talking merely about players. Obviously the Astros got more depth heading in to the postseason. Did it work? NOPE. I just had a mental lapse; how did they do in '98 again? And what do they have now from that trade? NOTHING. Okay I'll give you that one; I thought the Clemens trade rumors were beforehand, but my mental timeline messed up here. One thing is I'm not bashing Hunsicker. I think he's a fantastic GM and I wouldn't have anyone else. I felt that, in these cases, the Astros didn't put a whole lot of thought into these decisons. I don't mean that in a bad way, though. In 98 and 99 the Astros were Playoff contendors. They needed more depth. They needed good solid veterans. They weren't looking into the future, 2 or 3 years down the road. Elarton was allrghit; he had a good year and then got injured. Hidalgo was arguably the best minor league prospect at one point. He had one good year, then a breakout year in 2000. I just feel that if I were GM and was offered Clemens for Elarton and Hidalgo, I would go ahead with it. It's much easier to replace a good outfielder than a good ptcher, imo.
Meaning playoffs. RJ was the best pitcher during the second half of the season, but was shut down by Brown in the postseason.
As a General Manager, you can't control the outcome of the games. You get the best talent you can together and hopefully they'll win. In 1998 the Astros scored the most runs in the NL and their ERA was second in the league. The addidition of Johson made them World Series contenders. It didn't work out due to the fluke performances of Hitchcock and Leyritz. OK here's a scenerio: The Astros are neck and neck with the Cardinals at the trade deadline later this year but the team's not getting much out of the bottom of the rotation. The team can score runs like crazy but a couple of starters just blow. You think man, if only the team had one more starter we'd be walking away with the division and we'd be better than ANY team in the NL. Meanwhile on the east coast, the Yankees are on their way to the division title while the Red Sox have completely collapsed making Pedro Martinez available for the right price. Playoff teams are salivating at the chance of having Pedro throw bee-bees in October. You think about a playoff rotation of Pedro, Oswalt and Miller with the likes of Bagwell, Berkman and Kent pounding in the runs. Add in the stellar bullpen and you can start to see the promised land. Your 2003 World Series Champion Houston Astros!!!! The catch is that Boston wants three top prospects and the team has NO money to re-sign Pedro in the offseason so this will be one one year rental. Would you make the deal for a chance to win the whole thing? Me, I wouldn't bat an eye. Hector Gimenez is the only untouchable prospect in my eye. Huh? Needed good solid veterans? How about Ausmus, Bagwell, Biggio, Spiers, Alou, Everett, Reynolds, Johnson(Randy not Russ) and Wagner? Weren't looking to the future 2 to 3 years down the road? Then how did the win the division 3 years later in 2001? And now this season they look prime again. Elarton destroyed the minor leagues. And he was well on his way to becoming an elite pitcher in the major after 1998 and 1999. The guy had better stuff than Freddy Garcia. Again there was no foresight that he would have arm problems. Clemens isn't really a good pitcher. So he's from Katy. Big freakin' deal. He's slightly above average and costs a ton. He's half the pitcher Randy Johnson is. At the time, Elarton was just as good as Clemens and Hidalgo was on the verge of bustin out. Without using hindsight, why would you trade a pitcher who's just about as good as the other guy while adding an up and coming outfielder and taking on about $8 million in additional salary? I really don't get the fascination with Clemens.
Greg, I think you posed a very interesting scenario there: I'd also make that trade for Pedro....in a freaking heartbeat. That would definitely give the Astros a great shot at the post season and beyond. Speaking of beyond: does anyone elso find it REAL depressing when you think about all the contracts that are up for renewal after this season, and the fact that Drayton is not very likely to spend a lot to renew those contracts.....meaning we could very well lose Dotel, Oswalt, Miller, Ausmus, etc. etc. etc.?
I don't believe Oswalt has been in the majors long enough to be a FA, I could be wrong. I'm thinking arbitration in that case. Losing Ausmus won't be a huge blow, as John Buck is just about ready for the bigs, and Hector Giminez(sp?) is well on his way. I hope I am right about these things, and the Astros can resign some of our free agents.
Oswalt and Miller will be in their second years of arbitration while Dotel will have his last year under club control next season. This is when the big paydays start to come in. Keep in mind that after 2004, Berkman will be a FA. Pray for these 4 guys to stay in Blood 'n Mud.
I'm not worried about Berkman leaving Houston, he's said several times that he'd like to emulate Bagwell & Biggio & play out his career here. WaMi & Roy are a different story, it'll be interesting to see how Drayton & Gerry handle this over the next few years. I can see Wagner getting traded this offseason and having a Lidge/Dotel combo to handle the 8th/9th innnings.
Nobody here mentions the ass-raping dealt to the Mets when we got Dotel and Cedeno (bust) for that lunatic, Carl Everett.
The Astros traded Hampton for Dotel and Cedeno. They traded Carl Everett for Adam Everett and Greg Miller.
