Daryl Morey, The Rockets, and the "Moneyball" Concept

I am confused are you saying the drafting of them was a moneyball move? Because of the stats they put up in college?

If so, then I see your point.

I was talking about acquiring players like Francis, James, Barry etc...that have not panned out yet.

DD

 

I like Morey and think he has helped this team but your example is all wrong. First it was the 06 draft. Morey had just been hired at the time and CD was the acting GM for a whole other year. CD always claimed Battier was JVG's choice. Even on the draft CD said JVG won't play a rookie and after Battier started looking good for the Rockets CD said JVG deserved all of the credit. Morey may have done some number crunching to show Battier's worth and CD certainly searched the league for the best deal for the number 1 pick. But in the end it was JVG's choice and Morey deserved almost no credit.

I do think Morey is doing a good job and can find talent in the draft. But CD said Landry was spotted first by the head of player personnel and Brooks was Adelmans idea. Still Morey has shown some good moves and the way he moved Mike James and Bonzi for what later became Ron Artest is amazing. And although i would have been more impressed if he could have gotten rid of Tmac for something of Value, Billups Wallace. In conclusion I still think the verdict is out but it is looking good for morey.

 

Again Adelman spotted Brooks and insisted on looking at the kid and that guy who is now with SA spotted Landry. You are giving Morey too much credit and reading his mind as well. Nice opinion but no facts to back it up.

 

Money ball is just a flashy term for smart business, finding the most productive players for as little money as possible, sounds easy. Morey must be hating Tmac's contract right now.

But Morey's true specialty with numbers lies in his possession analysis. He takes it to awhole other level, I wouldnt be surprised if Artest was on the trading block right now.

 

Let's be clear morey was not hired until the end of 2006. And then only as an assistant. He was not the decision maker until the end of 2007. Unless you have some insider info, any impact you think he had before 2007 is pure speculation.

Now let me go thru your list. Luis Scola; CD said they were going after him for a while, yes even before Morey. Make no mistake about it the Rockets would never have landed him if not for the ability to give them a contract that could be washed from the books. SA had agreed with Scola they would try to trade him but only if it benefited them. Vspan offered such a deal and in spite of having no desire to trade with Houston they felt it financially necessary. As for Brooks and Landry, Adelman watched Brooks in High School and College and like him. No one else on the Rockets wanted another undersized guard. Adelman insisted on looking at the kid. As for Landry, correct me if I am wrong but it was Dean Cooper that first spotted Landry. I will give Morey some credit because it was on his watch just like Scola, but the initial idea didn't come from him. I will concede that Francis was probably a Les Idea but you can't pass the buck on Barry and James when thos were clearly on Morey's watch. Again Morey had little to do with Battier. He barely started, wasn't GM and CD says it was JVG's choice. So that leaves us with Bobby Jackson a shrewd business move consider it turned into Artest.

To sum it up the verdict is still out on Morey but personally I like what I see so far.

 

After getting 4 titles out of it, other teams can copy anything they desire. Uniform design, chinese big men, anything.

But yeah if you dont get a "big jump" and big early success from it, like the Run & Shoot in the NFL, teams will either copy, learn to stop it, or just discontinue it.

Might be giving a little undeserved credit to Morey's moneyball for every good move. The good part of it all is if you eliminate moneyball as the strategy, it still shows good GM'ing apart from that. Scola or Brooks might not have been moneyball at all, but thats still some good moves however you look at it. Means Morey doesnt have to depend on it

 

I sort of have to disagree.


Those Steve Nash teams never won, anything, when they had a big open window, but failed in playoffs against very talented defenses and bigger teams.

In comes 2007, as the gaps between them and the lesser Western playoff teams had closed. The Lakers thrashed them in Phoenix in an early meeting and later beat them pretty good on Christmas Day with an outstanding games from Bynum and Odom, which lead to LA moving into 1st place until Bynum went down. That right there showed that the Suns were being left behind, while also struggling with other teams, like the Blazers, Jazz, and even Rockets. The style of play was already being nullified, because the West was getting bigger front court.

This was all before the Gasol trade...The "run and gun" Suns weren't gonna win a championship with Amar'e playing center and Marion playing power forward. Let's say Phoenix keeps that team from last year without the Shaq trade....Could they possibly get past a team, like the Lakers, Spurs, or even Jazz and Rockets at that point. I would say not, which is why that was one of the reasons why Lakers acquired Gasol...a decent post player and rebounder to compete with San Antonio and physically pound teams, like the Warriors and Suns who like to run up and down the court.

 

Now, you have a stronger point, but again...considering everything that was going on the time, that might have been compelled to make the first move on the table.

Getting Shaq was a very risky move, because he is on the downside of his career and known to miss a large number of games than usual.

I think the Suns wanted Shaq, more for the playoffs than the regular season...the Suns can win with their style of play...50 games easily...the problem is not having a strong post presence...which is Shaq. They're able to get tough points with him, but I do believe that Phoenix could've found a defensive minded, running big man to play center. It wasn't on the market at the time, so they went with the best thing, which was Shaq. Also, Marion seemed like he wanted to bolt, anyway.

In regular season, the Suns should run the offense through Nash and Amar'e and run "n" gun, and slowly near the end of the season, see how to work in Shaq. I agree...they shouldn't have him as a go-to player over Amar'e and Nash or having him play over 32 minutes in a game.

 

I don't think moneyball works in basketball because unlike any other sport, basketball can be changed by 1 player. In baseball when you have 5 starting pitchers and a bullpen, its different. Another thing is for all or billy beane books and formula's , how many times has his team made it to the big show? How many times has his team won? Florida and Tampa doesn't have moneyball and has won a title.

In basketball, players win, especially franchise players. I understand the "no bad contracts" , but sometimes that's not such a bad thing when trying to get talent. Under morey, the rox probably never get mcgrady and wouldve probably never been higher than a fringe playoff team. I'm not saying Cato had a good contract, but his contract helped get McGrady. We look at Portland that has Lafrentz or Cleveland that has Wally, those are huge deals that can be used to get a really,really good player in a bad situation.

I'm not saying you have to be a superstar or hof to be a good gm, but I think you have to have a understanding about players beyond stats that can help you acquire players. I mean, look at our roster. No size, limited atheleticism and no versitility. When you've played the game past high school, you understand that rosters has to be equal. You can have a bunch of guards and a bunch of undersized 4's that can't play 5. I'm willing to bet if adelman had some say, this roster would be different. Kupchak screwed up twice, but made it right by a couple of moves. He learned from west who was one of the best ever.

There are a lot of people that has haste and disdain for dawson, but until the team win a ring, moneyball or whatever morey is doing means nothing. This is about rings, not being competitive. This is houston,not the florida marlins who are a small market team struggling to stay afloat. This franchise has history and titles to look at with hall of famers. The bar is raised and I hope he can handle it, but looking at the pink elephant in the room, yao not having a backup and signing brent barry, I'm still in the show me stage.

 

So we added Scolandry and brooks last yr and what was the win difference than the year before?

 

Another thing, moneyball cost us this year in free agency. If Landry was given the standard 2 yr contract with the team option for the 3rd for a high 2rd pick, we couldve used the mle to go get more help. Is that past of moneyball also?