To response to your assertions. 1) Yes, you are correct about this. 2) The Rockets used the #8 pick to get Battier WHILE DUMPING A CRAPPY CONTRACT (Stromile Swift). Comparing the values of Battier and the #8 pick is unfair, since the Rockets were using (what all parties at the time obviously acknowledged was) a better asset to package with a crappy long-term deal (Swift had another 3-4 years remaining at full MLE money) in order to "net" themselves Battier. People talk about trading crap to teams like Philly in exchange for Iguodala for the "price" of eating Brand's contract. Well, how is this any different--in basic concept--from the Battier deal? THAT is where I will disagree with you. 3) This is subject to debate, and I don't necessarily agree with you, but your opinion is valid. 4) I think Morey's ACTUAL track record does not fall purely in line with what you are accusing "$Ball" of being. For instance, taking a raw, 6'10" freshman SF in Donte Greene is clearly not in line with your accusation. And, no, he was not selected FOR the Sacramento Kings. He was selected to be a Houston Rocket. The Artest deal came up a few weeks later, and Morey was willing to trade Greene to make it happen.
This is bad, how? Why in hell would anyone actively SEEK risk? From someone who deals with this stuff on a professional level on a daily basis, the goal is ALWAYS to avoid risk. The goal is REWARD. Sometimes risk is attached to that, but if possible we limit it as much as we can. Show me how we have sacrificed reward in an effort to avoid risk. Not overspending is a very good thing, and contributes to building a successful team. So the fact that Morey works there is good news. As far as his ability to put out an elite WC team, I would argue that had much more to do with our stars dropping like flies than any indictment on his methodology. But you are right, the cold hard results have not been there yet so the verdict is still out. Context is relevant though. I do not think people here praise him for what he has accomplished. In fact most of us recognize that he has not actually accomplished anything. However there are plenty of us who sees value in the process and methodology that he is implementing, and the end goal he is working towards. I believe the target of Battier was all Morey. However the actual negotiations and consummation of the deal was still in the hands of CD. So any "overpaying" stems from a bargaining perspective dealt by the standing GM at the time. For what its worth I do somewhat agree that we overpaid, even factoring in dumping Stromile Swift's contract. Had we obtained Kyle Lowry then, I doubt there would be so much uproar. From all the deals that DM actually oversaw himself, we can see that he drives a hard bargain with some impeccable timing and patience. For me the issues of the "Battier trade" are not an ongoing concern. $Ball is foolish-averse, emotion-averse, pissing-in-the-wind-averse. As far as risk, as long as the adequate reward is accompanying, there are no embargoes against it. As for vision, I don't know what kind you need to tell you the Carmelos and Chris Pauls of the world are great players. It is only a matter of how to obtain them. Something $ball is working towards not against. The absolute last thing Morey should be criticized for is his draft evaluation. What ever he is overemphasizing, I hope he continues to do so as he maintains his pristine record.
It may have been low risk, high reward, but I don't understand how he can present that as anything negative, ever, in any situation. Would he have preferred high risk, high reward? High risk, no reward? Just so we can wing it? And his point about not giving out big contracts... so it would've been better if we signed Scola to the max? Sign Lowry to $10M a year? I'm not sure how that would benefit us. But it sure would be risky!
It only seems that we overpaid since Rudy Gay has panned out better than the average 8th pick. Had we traded Thabo Sefolosha to the Grizz, nobody would bring the deal up any more. Anyways, good post.
If you don't think any other GM could do better, then doesn't that mean the GM is doing a pretty good job? It doesn't mean every move is going to be perfect in hindsight, but no other GM's moves would be either. Certainly there are a lot of other GMs who would have us considerably worse shape than we are now considering all the injuries to our star players.
It's not the riskiest move out there, but it's not a no risk move, either. A safe solution, one that minimizes potential for criticism would be to just keep the two first rounders and move forward instead of trading for someone who, even as a rental, has potential to blow up in your face and subject you to criticism. Most important, we both agree it is a smart move. As has been mentioned, I'm not sure why Morey should be blamed for not investing, in, say, an Elton Brand-type bad contract just to prove he's willing to take risks. And as I said, if the criteria for being "risk taking" is $ amounts, then Morey took on plenty of money with Kevin Martin and Luis Scola. So in the end, Morey's methods does not lead to "risk avoidance" by Gater's own definition.
I agree. But lots of it is just fans having fun exaggerating things. Kind of like talking smack to a friend who is a fan of another team. It's debatable. I know this is your biggest bone since Morey was on board. I am not going to argue. It may be true to a certain extent about the risk part, although I still don't think that's the whole story. Other people have been pointing out the "exceptions." I disagree with the vision part. Even if the method was based on risk calculation, that does not logically followed by "no vision." I think there is a discernible direction in his team building strategy. I've been involved in strategic planning long enough to know that you can't have that kind of plans without a vision. BTW, you keep assuming that Morey's method is identical to Bean's. That is clearly over-simplistic. Again, over-simplistic. As I said, I agree that he tends to value intelligence more than size. That does not necessarily mean he didn't understand the importance of the physical aspects. I just find that you are too one-sided, too black-and-white, when it comes to judging Morey's method, seemingly without understanding the different shades of reality. You are just as guilty as those who deify him at the opposite end.
That I actually agree with. But it seems to me that you've already made your verdict -- "$Ball" GMs don't work in basketball if you're trying to build an elite team. I don't know what Les's inner-motivations were when he brought in Daryl Morey. If others want to be cynical that's fine, but I still trust that my team is trying to win championships and not simply save money (though one doesn't necessarily oppose the other).
You misunderstood what he meant. He didn't say "any other GM could have done better" -- so, he accepts there could be some clueless GMs out there that would have done as poor a job as Morey, or worse. But he's also not saying that Morey did as well as any GM could have under the circumstances -- not close. He's been pretty clear that he thinks the Rockets would have been better off with CD.
Our defense is almost nonexistent now when under JVG and CD it was top 3. Morey and Adelman deserves a lot of the blame.
Absolutely ridiculous. Morey has put this team into position to land a superstar With expirings, picks and young talent. It takes two to make it happen. Oh you don't know this? Now you do.
