Let's move on, boys. Yes, this series was a bad loss, and we certainly were not clutch. But going on name-calling against the Rockets is just trolling. If you want to go do that, go to the Mavericks boards.
choke city? I disagree. I think we fought hard, got on top of the goliath, took an early lead, but unlike david we didn't finish it b/c we ran out of gas in the final game. At the end of day, we took on a healthy 58 win Dallas team without our third best player, Juwon Howard. Not only did we have to fight Mark Cuban's incessant whinning but also NBA's attempt to change the game to suit the run and gun style by demanding the officials to call more fouls to be called for guards and none for the big men. In the end we fought galantly and came up short against a great Mavs team(not to mention highly paid) with only our journey man and two great but naive young stars. Lets not dwell on whether this team choked but how this team need to improve next year such that they no longer have to play the role of David again.
I agree with you. The only problem is that our role players are too old and we did not eliminate Dallas in the first 6 game.
I believe it was a combination of choking and stellar talent on the mavs side that resulted in the Rockets series demise, after hearing some truths in this thread. In either case, they choked, by my definition in specific moments of this series, regardless of the talent deficiency, just as did Dallas did in the first couple games. We lost the series after a 2-0 lead which is statistically very improbable! So, label it superior talent, call it a collapse, label it choking or call it whatever you want. Expectations after game 2 were that the rockets were going to the second round. I know some of you will deny this and claim "you knew that their talent would overcome this", but in our hearts, this series was done after game 2. To IROC and Cohen--quit attacking the messenger. attack the message. My denial and fool comment was to address this point. Many on this board are denying that we should have sealed this thing and I think you are fooling yourselves if you think that, despite their talent, we could not put them away. Statistically, this was a choke. We had them on the ropes....just one game in Houston would have done it and we choked in game 4. Let's accept that we were not mentally tough at certain moments: all the basic defensive lapses, missed free throws, turnovers, miss opportunities led to this series collaspe. And, just like someone said earlier, teams will choke or go through tough times before being strong...let's use this series in this series as fuel for future playoff appearances....talent is deficient, but with a small tweak and growing from this choke, we can get better. It reminds me of Kobe's first playoff appearance. He gaged badly. Then became stronger.
I would say that after games 3 and 4 and the leads in those games in the 4th quarter, we choked them away with a lack of execution. I wouldn't said that we choked for the whole series because we wasn't expected to win or let alone take this series to seven games. What happened after game 2 is that besides our lack of execution in the 4th quarter of both games 3 & 4, Avery Johnson and the rest of the Mavericks figured out that if we just let McGrady and Yao get their points while shutting down their bench, then their bench would take care of the rest. It certainly worked to a tee in game 7 as outside of the duo, the rockets only had 16 other points with having just five people score. Despite Avery's philosophy(spelling?) we had our chances games 3 though 5. You can argue that the Mavs just played better or was the better team in game 5, but games 3 and 4 we beat ourselves with missed FT's, VERY poor transition defense, and careless turnovers. Our bench wasn't that athletic compared to the Mavericks' bench but when the bench came through (especially Mike James), we had no problems running the offense and we blew Dallas out in games 1 and 6. What also cost us some games and probably this series is that JVG left McGrady out there for too many minutes in the game where he should've sat him for the last two minutes of the third and the first few minutes of the fourth. He should've done this regardless of we're being down 10 or up 10 since in either case if the momentum shifts the Mavericks way when we're up, McGrady would've been fresh to come in or if we're down 10, Mcgrady would've been more rested and fresh to help us battle back because when he's on his game, then anything can happen which is mostly in a good way for Houston. Another thing is that the Rockets' on the defensive end was so worried out Dirk going off, when in reality it was the other shooters such as Stackhouse, Finley, Terry and Howard who was stroking it. Mcgrady definitely did his job on Dirk, but after game 2, it was obvious that they should've respected the other outside shooters more or play man-to-man. We left them open game after game and Jason Terry had time to tie his shoes and do the hokey pokey before he shot most of them threes. So you can say we choked a bit, but we eventually lost to a better team in the very end even though it should've not went that far. A choke is last year's NBA Finals. The Lakers were expected to win in 5 games, not almost being swept barring a miracle by Kobe.
Originally posted by montgo ... We lost the series after a 2-0 lead which is statistically very improbable! ... Statistically improbable? That just about says all we need to hear. ... To IROC and Cohen--quit attacking the messenger. Still don't get it, eh? You're no messenger since there's no 'message' here. We all saw the games. We all know the outcome. Your oinion is that we choked. A reasonable counter hypothesis is that we overachieved due to grit and heart and simply did not have the legs to finish off the 4th qtrs in games 3 and 4, nor last for a 7th game against a very young, athletic team. When you attack those who disgree with you by saying that they're in denial and fools, then you deserve a much worse 'attack' than what you've rec'd here.
I don't think it was an overall choke job, but at the same time let's stop saying they lost to a higher seeded team. It was a 4-5 match up not 1-8 or 2-7 and the Rockets two best players each out performed their best player.
I feel the message is already established. The MAVS were a 4 seed, the Rockets were a 5 seed. It was 5-5 until game 7... the team with the higher seeding and homecourt advantage won it. No choke. Was it possible for Houston to win it? Yes. Was it probable? Always (until it's over). Was it necessary to compare this year's team to the moniker Houston recieved after two 4th qtr. 20 pt. leads blown at home in '94? No. IDIOTS say those things. We watched each game. Both teams played "BUTTS OFF" basketball. The better team, both in standings, and depth - for this match up - won it in a lopsided, half flukey, stomping of a butt whoopin'... But Houston is in no way "Choke City." Any more than PHX was in 1994. The Rockets just lost to the better team. The point that Cohen makes is that you labeled people fools before they hardly even responded on the matter... This what IDIOTS do. We've all been IDIOTS before... this is why we can spot one. Chill out. We'll be back. PHX in 5. SA in 6. MIA in 5. Blah, blah, blah...
Mentioning fresh legs and a younger team is not the reason we lost this series and it is merely making excuses for a lack of mental toughness and poor execution in pressure situations: games 3, 4 and 7 noted. Listen to the organization and the players...They are admitting the truth and not making excuses! They know they should have beaten the Mavs, especially after 1 and 2. Yes, the more talent-laiden team won, but that is a convenient excuse IMHO. The most talent-laiden team does not always win. People, let them take responsibility for their actions, as this could be a motivator in the future. We collapsed in 3,4 and 7 and let's quit debating semantics. If you only accept the excuses above, then I think you might be in a state of "homerism denial". To anyone I offended, you are not a fool (because I do not know you personally), but rather, you might be fooling yourself if you only use the excuses similar to above....I hope this helps and quit calling me names
I think the bench "choked" only in the Game 7, in all the series this is a very good team, and I think Yao and T-Mac never choked
Mentioning fresh legs and a younger team is not the ONLY reason. But's one of the MAIN REASONS that we lost game seven by so much. Bringing up mental toughness and poor execution is also a factor. But all the mental toughness and execution wouldn't have guaranteed a victory or nullified the fact that the Mavs did have faster-quicker players. Yes, it's true that even Jeff mentioned that our ROLE players cracked under ther relentless presure the Mavs guards placed on them. That's a fact. But as Cohen said. Most of the serise we were playing on heart and hustle. Take a look at both game one and two. Those games had key possessions where the game could have turned either way. James and Tmac made shots that were out of this world. In a sense, we shouldn't have won those games. But we were soooo condident, and soooo agressive that we shellshocked the Mavs early on...until the made adjustments. Well, heart can get you only so far. Sooner or later you'll need speed, depth, and rebounding. We just ran out of options. Choking happens when you clearly have a superior team -- we're not elite yet -- advantages at most postions, are favored to win the serise, and then you crash and burn at the end. That's not us. We were the underdogs entering the series and it caught up to us. We didn't choke, we got our ASS HANDED TO US fair and square! Do you want to see a real choke? Keep an eye on the Suns (either vs the Mavs or Spurs). They have to win the Title or their *best record* will be a waste! Listen to youself. You are in fantasy-land. You are saying that it's an excuse when a more talent laden team defeats your less talent laden team? Huh? Anyways, just wait until next year when we have more speed/rebounding at key positions. We'll be better than the Mavs (because of TMac/Yao + the extra speed of the role players). It's not like the Mavs can just go get a "Tmac/Yao." They will always be behind the curve on that one.
On a first name basis with the man, are you? I guess you come by your Van Gundy colored glasses honestly.
I wouldn't say "Choke City", but we did choke. Taking 2 in Dallas, and then coming home and playing with a lead in both game 3 and 4. I'd say we choked.
I'd define a choke where a player/team has pretty much the game/series wrapped up and then totally collapses to give the game away. A. I didn't think the Rox series was wrapped up, even up 2-0. B. I don't think we totally collapsed giving them the series. The entire series was suppose to be a well-fought, bitterly contested series expected to go 6 or 7 games---and it was. Dallas squeezed by this year and now they get to get beat by Phoenix in the next round.
talent-laiden teams do not win it all everytime and can be beaten by mental toughness and team execution (see Pats, Lakers, Yankees, Pistons Marlins...etc as examples for and against). It was a combination of factors, but you have to enter their own theory of collapsing under pressure into the equation more than fresh legs or more athletic.... My definition of choking is not performing to an expected level in any pressure situations when previous consistent expectations of performances have been established. The rockets won game 1 and 2 (there were no expectations of the looming basic offense and defensive breakdowns that occurred in games 3,4 and 7). Had they executed to a basic level in pressure situations in 3 and 4-they would have won one game at home and we would be in Phoenix: hitting free throws as expected, converting fast breaks opps as expected, playing basic perimeter and transition defense as expected. These were several instances of mental collapses in pressure situations, not physical. Dallas did not do anything exceptional in these games, except execute when given the chance in pressure situations. We failed when given the opportunity, especially game 4. Calling it Choke City is harsh--though the topic is "dare we say it", not necessarily declaring it...Regardless, did they choke in the series?: subject to debate still...did they choke in specific games?: most definitely. I believe this is a great motivator though. We are not calling them losers or hating them.....they still performed admiralably and deserve accolades! As always, i am looking forward to next year and with a slight tweaking and picking up an athletic 4 or 2 and adding more depth, we should be golden next year-- using this series as a motivator also.
