For those who say a motion offense does not win championships, what about the Lakers? What about the Bulls? There are 8 championships in the last 11 years...all running a motion style of offense. The Rockets offense is not good, and it may be because our players are not running it correctly. All I am saying is that some players are more comfortable moving without the ball, and some are better spot up shooters. The Rockets have Langhi and Tmo, and OT, and Rice all at the SF position and ALL of them are better in a movement style of offense. The only SF the Rockets have who is a good spot up shooter is Walt. DaDakota
Thank you for spelling it out in C++. Langhi has no place on the Rockets. His game(if he even has one) is strictly as a shooter, which the Rockets have an abundance of. We need more defensive minded bench/role players. Keeping Lanky next year serves no purpose because you can count on him being buried at the end of the bench.
I'm like others on this board...i'll reserve judgement about his play until the end of the season, hopefully Rudy will play him more the rest of the season. But if he can sustain the same type of on court success as last night then it poses at least 2 questions 1. Somebody has to go because there too many forwards 2. Would he really want to stay here after what he's gone through here
imo ... you are just making this up, fitting him into something you like, because you like him. You do understand that this is not what Langhi says. He is on record saying that his problem was that he was used to having the ball in his hands all the time and attacking double teams. He is on record saying he is not used to catch and shoot and he has to get used to it. We can read between the lines here and say that he is used to being a ball hog. He is not suited to motion according to those statements. I'll try to find that quote, but trust me. Who else remembers these quotes. Langhi looks lost out there not as much when he has the ball, but when he doesn't. Vandy did not play motion; they played LanghiBall, akin to WallyBall. Langhi doesn't look comfortable catching and shooting (he said that, too). He doesn't look comfortable picking or otherwise doing off ball motion. He only looks comfortable shooting off the dribble, and taking it to the hole. That's what he likes, being iso'd. Does that describe a player who is seeking a motion offense. Like Langhi all you want and want him on another team to see him do well, but this is a *great* offense for him to be in. Another system is not going to make him florish. Only finding a team that isn't stacked at SF. imo, he wants to leave because of Rudy trading for Rice and drafting Morris, not because he doesn't like the system.
For those who say a motion offense does not win championships, what about the Lakers? What about the Bulls? There are 8 championships in the last 11 years...all running a motion style of offense. I'd say those teams won because they gave the ball to the right people (Jordan, Shaq) and let them operate. It didn't matter if they were running the double-post, a triangle, pick-and-roll, the old Rockets drop-in-kick-out, or the legendary Princeton backdoor-cut offense. When it came to crunch time, the Bulls gave the ball to Jordan, and let him take over. I'd concede the point about fitting the offense to the personnell, if I thought that those players you mentioned were essential to the offense. But Glen Rice has been in decline for several years, and the rest of those guys are complementary-type players that you don't focus your offense around. The Rockets didn't alter their offense when Robert Horry came aboard, even though he complained about not being a spot-up shooter. He adjusted his game to fit the system.
This is a big pet peeve of mine. The Triangle is not a motion offense. It is a flex. Like Sam alluded to, it is strong-side offense predicated on 3 entry points to utilize a star or two both on the same side of the court, in a way they can't be double teamed or another option becomes available. When the strong side play is stopped, you "flex" to a scorer on the weakside. The key to the Triangle is a scorer on the strong side, spacing and a flex scorer on the weakside to prevent defenses from clogging the strongside. The Triangle was invented before screens were legalized in college. Modern Motion was not invented until screens were legalized. When the were, the triangle became obsolete and was abandoned in college ranks, as a poor offense that had a tendency to clog the strongside, and place too many requirements on skill level of your players. it is not a motion offense. Ball movement, sure. But we are supposed to be ball movement, too. Our system is perfect for Dan Langhi. He just get beat out his teammates.
Crispee, To clarify, I mean an offense where everyone shares the ball, and the players move to set positions. He did come off screens at Vandy, and he was a catch and shoot guy. He also was very good at one on one. The biggest problem with Langhi is that our team does NOT share the ball, and yes, Langhi needs touches to be successful, heck who doesn't? Sam, True about Shaq, and Kobe and MJ, however, they SHARED the ball at crunch time, and in fact, they SHARED the ball all game. This is EXACTLY why other players on the Rockets have not excelled, our team is selfish...maybe not by nature, but because of a lack of trust. That is why I said I am not sure it is Rudy's system or the players not running the system correctly. All I know, is that it is damned ugly to watch, and teams that pass make us look like a STUPID team. DaDakota
crispee gives me too much credit, I knew that the triangle wasn't really a motion offense but I didn't convey that in my last post. Anyway, passing is a much bigger issue than motion. It's absolutely essential to any offense, including ours. The thing is, we don't have anybody who's that great at it. When an offensive set is designed around guard penetration, as most of ours are, the guard has to have an awareness of where the potential double team is coming from and who's going to be open. The other 4 players have to be aware of how to get themselves in a position to receive the kick-out pass off of the penetration in a place on the floor where they can be effective. Right now, I don't think our guards are adept at making that intuitive read, and frankly when its Steve or Cuttino driving maybe they realize that the best option is for them to score anyway. The rest of the team isn't exactly filled with the kind of offensive threats that make you scared to leave them semi-open (with the zone, you never have to leave someone entirely open). Langhi had an exceptional game last night and I hope he can repeat it, but for now it looks like an aberration based on the rest of his NBA career-to-date.
I'm willing to say that if langhi got enough playing time and confidence everyone on this board would agree that he is a better outside shooter than Odom, maybe not Lewis but Odom for sure.Odom would not work on this team unless there is a lot of motion.That way our three guards could penetrate.A big man would open up for the gurds we already have and become even more effective.Langhi probably finds the system boring, and I wonder why?
I knew you were just talking about ISOs at the end of the games, but all I need is the doorway opened an inch to go off on one of my pet peeves... DaDakota, I still say you are just making this up, that Langhi needs a different system. I don't buy it. You seem to be using this topic to bash our system and predict Langhi's breakout all in one context. you, leebigez, dave feitl...all you guys are bashing the system to prop Langhi. This system is built for the Langhi's of the world. Everytime Langhi plays he gets to do his favorite thing, which is to attack off the dribble. He just has a mental block about spot up shooting, which he never was asked to do at Vandy. His mental block seems to be knowing when to shoot versus pass or move off the dribble from the spot up position. And he looks lost when picking and moving and making quick decisions when given the ball...these are the staples of motion. btw: all Langhi's in the league would excel on the Lakers and the Kings . . . but only in practice. The Laker's would bench him for lack of defense, and the Kings have better scorers. As for he just needs more touches to get into the flow . . . every NBA player wants that and is better because of it. Rudy wants more flow, too. btw: do you really believe all the plays we have for Walt are spot up shooting. Langhi just can't beat out Walt in practice. If he did, he'd get all of Walts double picks and be allowed to catch and drive like he loves. Langhi is an ISO player who can shoot on the move. Even if he is allowed to play like he wants, he'd be quickly dubbed a ballhog, just like Wally is by his teammates and Drazen Petrovic was by his. He just has to beat out Walt, and hope Terence doesn't improve his shot. question to you: how many times have we seen Walt drive and dish and Terence take the catch and drive into a seam to pass. A few, right? Yes! They are more suited to Lakers/Kings style than Langhi. I've seen Langhi drive a lot, but once he starts dribbling; dude is yet to pass, just like at Vandy. more suited to motion offense . . . where do you get that?!
Crispee, you should be careful in saying that Walt beat him in practice. Just the money Walt is making and the fact that is a veteran may have more to do with the playing time that Walt got, knowing Rudy, than Walt beating him in practice. I am not saying that he beat Walt in practice, but I feel like the cards were stacked against DL. Regarding styles, I would think that DL could spot up and excel if he had to. Confidence is key with DL. If his confidence is high, you would see alot more range to his game. I am a little surprised about the spot shooting limitation thing when he was the one designated to take Bull's place, if you remember.
Crispee, You are kidding about Rudy and beating someone in practice, right? Rudy can have someone who looks DYNAMITE in practice and will always play the veterans ahead of him. Look at Eddie Griffin, he got ZERO playing time until Rudy was FORCED to play him. Langhi just needs a chance to play and to touch the ball. Langhi moved a lot off screens at Vanderbilt and in the Rockets Rookie review. He is more then capable of playing that style, but the difference is that he KNOWS he is going to be involved. What he is NOT great at, is moving to OPEN space if it is not a directed part of the offense. OT & KT are the best at doing this on the Rockets, and they RARELY get rewarded for it. I am not trying to bash anyone or any offense. I simply think that the Rockets and particularly Langhi would flourish if our team passed the ball more then dribbled it. DaDakota
I was just about to post the same thing because I remember him saying something along those lines. Langhi is an off the dribble player, NOT a catch and shooter guy. BTW, if Langhi needs touches to be successful, please let him go somewhere else because we have too many players that need touches.
DaDakota And I am saying guys like Langhi hamper offensive flow. They require plays run for them that they've practiced over and over. They are dumb players. imo, Langhi shows little knowledge of basketball. Players like him are the reason we have limited ball movement. You put him on a ball movement team like the Kings and he'll hamper their movement. He'll get his points, but it won't improve their game. And it is silly for you to say Rudy is letting Terence and Walt play ahead of him for any reason other than he can't beat them out. Rudy has never held back a rookie. Never. That is insulting to Rudy. Just because Rudy didn't start Cassell over Smith in two championship seasons, every thinks he doesn't give the nod to the kids. dudes Cassell major minutes Maloney major minutes Horry Drew Dickerson Mobley Thomas Francis was given the key to the team Collier got minutes before his injury enough for cc.net to yell about it and The Cat having to defend it Terence major minutes even before Griffin Torres Griffin Look at that list. Only Langhi can't cut it. Dude can't even beat out a rookie this year.
Crispee, with that list you should include the veterans that that rookie was displacing when Rudy played them. I did not say Rudy does not play rookies. But he only does that when he does not have a choice. I just cautioned that Walt could have been playing more because of his relatively enormous salary rather than beating out DL in practice. Tmo played before DL not because of his offense but because of his defense and rebounding.
Crispee, I have been following the Rockets since the early 1970s, and following Rudy since he took over. He is VERY VERY VERY slow at letting rookies play, unless they have no veteran in front of them. How can you say Langhi hampers the offense, when he never touches the ball? How can he HAMPER anything when he is standing out of the way on the side. What HAMPERS the offense is our ball hogging 1 and 2 guards that do not pass to anyone other then themselves and an occasional lob to Cato. I AM saying that in order for Langhi to get comfortable he has to feel like he is part of the team. As for practice, how much practice time do you think the 12th man gets? How many times does he get to run with the first unit? I personally think Langhi CAN play, but it is just my opinion. I do wonder what you think of Francis and Mobley as they have teh same attributes that you are assigning to Langhi...are they DUMB players too? Neither of them plays good defense, and neither of them knows how to pass the ball in an efficient manner, maybe that is our whole problem, our teams basketball IQ is closer to absolute zero. The only 2 heady players I see on the court are OT and KT, the rest seem to be lacking that KNOW how about the game. DaDakota
DearRock, that list includes probably every Rookie who ever made this team. Exactly how many excuses are you going to make up. We went 3 yrs without a 1st round draft pick. Rudy brings up rookies as fast as anyone, and gives them all a chance, when many of us are crying for less of a role. Many said Maloney wasn't deserving of his time. We can add Moochie to this. Collier. Mobley got way more time than people wanted his second year. No one said he deserved more time than Shandon. Rudy gives new blood plenty of opportunities. You are confusing Rudy with Pat Riley, imo. So you tell me. Exactly which rookies weren't given time when they were deserving. Don't tell me Eddie Griffin, either, or I'll show you the quote of Rudy a few weeks ago saying that the rest of the season is all about his development. I mean, we are talking about giving the kingdom to Francis; giving the 4th Quarter to Sam Cassell in the middle of two title runs; giving Maloney the freaking starting position; giving starts to Dickerson/Mobley right out of the gate (well, a few games into for Mobley). Terence started before Griffin this year, didn't he. YOu claim that all the rookie Rudy was forced to play. Fact is: Langhi is replacing the worst of all the veterans we want gone (next to Matt Maloney), and that is Walt Williams. He still can't do it, and he got passed by a rookie on the depth chart, because Langhi is a ballhog-style player. He is the endpoint of motion. He does not help flow. Rudy simply thinks we should go in the Terence direction, not another shooter.
DaDakota, Langhi hampers the offense because I can see it in his play. He is the endpoint of flow. He is *not* flow. He is a ballhog. And as for you rookie theory goes...which is just bogus...a ROOKIE beat out Langhi. Can't you see that. Langhi was supposed to get his minutes under your theory. He did NOT. Rudy gave those minutes to a rookie.
Crispee, You are ignoring the politics of the Rockets team. Why do you think the Rockets took TMO? Also, Langhi WAS ahead of TMO and he hurt his ankle in preseason and others got ahead of him on the depth chart. As for rookies, Rudy has played them, but not at the expense of veteran players. Let's take a deeper look at your list. Cassell major minutes - But not at the beginning of the season and only got minutes after injuries forced Rudy to give him some meaningful minutes. Maloney major minutes - The Rocks had just traded away Cassell, they did not have another PG on the roster. Horry - I will give you this one, Horry did contribute right away, but again, he did not beat out a veteran at his spot. Drew -you are joking right, the dude hardly played... Dickerson - Came in with Mobley ...who did they have to beat out? Maloney?...LOL..the Rocks had no backcourt when he came in. Mobley - Not at the start of the season....same as Cassell here. Thomas - He also did not start and did not see major minutes until late in the season. Francis was given the key to the team - Well of course he was...he was the ONLY PG on the team, that was any decent. Collier got minutes before his injury enough for cc.net to yell about it and The Cat having to defend it -- Well he did get some time, but not much. Terence major minutes even before Griffin - Here is a case in point...He got minutes BECAUSE of injuries....and his familiarity with Francis. Torres -Injuries...forced Rudy's hand. Griffin -Injuries forced his hand. See it is not as clear cut as you make it out to be...Rudy does not like to play Rookies unless he HAS to play them. I guess we just see it differently. DD
