Dallas May Make History, Not that there's anything wrong with that

Discrimination is about Actions.
Show me the statistics of Gay Bashing. [hate Crimes, etc]
Show me the statistics on Gay discriminatory practices.[non hiring, etc]

Rocket River

 

How many are not openly gay to avoid discrimination?

 

and how many blacks are not openly black to avoid discrimination?

I think you set yourself up for that one though

 

what do you define has open-discrimination against gays?

and against blacks today?

 

But is being Anti-gay about discrimination or attitudes? I'm talking attitudes right now.

I'd be curious to see the stats by the way if anyone has them.

 

Great, great post.

So often this analogy comes up: if we should approve of gay behavior because they are "made that way", because they can't help it, then what if pedophiles are also "made that way?" Why don't we allow them to be "who they are?"

Uh... maybe because they cause lifelong psychological damage to innocent children?

I myself wonder if pedophiles are hard-wired to desire children. The part of me that thinks they are feels very terribly sorry for them, because they may spend their lives desiring something that harms innocent kids. But it's a no-brianer to choose the health and prosperity of innocent children over the [hypothetical, for argument's sake] "rights" of pedophiles who "naturally" feel the desires they feel, even if that's the way god made them.

The analogy to gays doesn't fit here; their natural desires don't violate or harm others any more than straight people do. How many times does this proposition have to be shot down?

 

Another great post.

 

Max,

I don't think the issue of whether you can conceal your sexual orientation or your race is the important issue here. I think what's important is that there is a significant segment of the population that want to have sexual/romantic relationships with people of the same sex. These people want the right to organize and live their lives with this same sex orientation as most of the population does with an opposite sex orientation.

The way we go forward with sexual orientation as class like race is to say "Okay, for those of you who identify yourselves as homosexual, we will not treat you any differently under the law as those who identify as heterosexual." This would mean you are free to marry a same sex partner, that job/housing discrimination based on sexual orientation was illegal, etc.

 

Not really when people can hide being gay.

 

but people cant hide being black. I thin therein lies the point that RR, Lil Pun and pgab are making.

 

Many people have hidden being "black" in the past. That is what "passing" was all about.

 

I doubt more people have been able to hide their skin color than sexual orientation.

 

1. minority groups aren't merely segments of society in my mind. perhaps i'm ascribing more to that word than is there.

2. the pedophilia thing causes problems. you say a pedophile has committed a crime...but that's only so if he's actually acted on it. to be attracted to children sexually is not a crime. so if we're saying that some component of this is choice...as in action taken or not taken...then i find that troubling when we start talking about affording protections and comparing it to race. and the state of the laws currently regarding pedophilia may or may not be relevant, frankly. at one point, having homosexual relations was illegal, as well. (and, no, i'm not suggesting i think that's a good thing...and i'm not trying to compare homosexuals with pedophiles. i'm not equating them morally or something like that. it only comes to mind because i've read that their attraction to children is somehow chemical or part of their wiring).

3. in the end, i probably agree with you far more than you know. i'm not advocating that gays be treated any differently. i've already stated i don't have a problem with the state recognizing gay marriages. your last paragraph is why people choose not to address this issue at all. it's why i've sought to avoid it. because to disagree in any capacity is to be labelled a bigot or have it insinuated about you.

 

and i have no problem with any of that.

 

I don't know, I feel like you're dancing around the question a bit, or maybe I'm not following.

So you are syaing poverity and quality of education for blacks is a demonstration of discriminatory practices and racism today? Or historically?

I think gays getting fired, passed up for promotions, and constantly having controversy around them is fairly clear as discriminatory. I don't think most states protect sexual orientation - so you can be denied a job for being gay. Certainly on par with many other minority rights issues.

 

I have never seen a state that said it was ok to fire someone because of their sexual orientation. You gotta give some examples of this.

 

I never said they could.

This issue brings up something else I've thought about. In at least one way I think discrimination is harder for homosexuals than blacks. It is often the case that you don't know that someone is gay. You may only have just met them and they don't exhibit stereotypically gay behaviors or they may not be out. In these situations bigots are much more likely to use a slur like "***" or be open about their homophobia. That has to be really hard for homosexuals.

Because you can usually identify on sight a persons general racial category, casual bigots (today) are unlikely to talk about "n_ggers" or be openly racist in the presence of blacks.