1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

D&D Politicized Boston Explosion Thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Xerobull, Apr 15, 2013.

Tags:
  1. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,974
    Likes Received:
    2,358
    Shalom Chaverim
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    [​IMG]

    Chechnya's women suffer growing repression

    GROZNY, Russia — Last year, Libkan Bazaeva decided she wanted to drive.

    She wanted to drive wherever she needed to go — to shop, to work, to see a friend. “I was tired of exploiting my husband,” is how the 66-year-old put it.

    In most parts of Russia, that would be no big deal. But Bazaeva lives in Chechnya.

    “People look at me on the road,” she said. “Sometimes when I drive home, the kids in the street scream, ‘Look! Grandma’s at the wheel!’”

    Twenty years after the fall of the Soviet Union, Chechnya has reverted to a deeply traditional culture, reinforced by the flight of ethnic Russians as the southern republic devolved into separatist war in the mid-1990s. Today, the government of Kremlin-backed Ramzan Kadyrov maintains a fragile piece as it fights the remaining Islamic rebels.

    Meanwhile, traditional values are becoming more entrenched as Kadyrov seeks to become, as local activists put it, “more Islamic than the Islamists.” The main targets? Women.

    Chechnya has not reached the level of restrictions seen in Saudi Arabia, where a Saudi woman has recently launched a movement urging other women to defy the kingdom’s female driving ban. Chechnya does not restrict through legislation.

    That standard is set, like everything else in Chechnya, by Kadyrov, who runs the republic as though everyone in it were his loyal subject. One of his first public statements upon being named prime minister in 2006 (he was named president the following year) was “encouraging” women to cover their hair. Today, stories abound of women fired from their jobs for failing to appear at work in a headscarf.

    The struggle then went to the streets of Grozny, where it still is as common to see a woman without a headscarf (or with a small symbolic headband) as it is to see those with covered heads.

    For several weeks last summer, men in cars with no license plates — the calling card of the kadyrovsty, former Chechen rebels loyal to Kadyrov — drove around town shooting paintballs at women who weren't wearing headscarves. A video of some of the attacks made it on to YouTube.

    Kadyrov’s spokesman put that attack down to “hooligans” and said it was the only one that happened, accusing Western journalists of exaggerating the number of attacks in order to discredit Chechnya.

    After speaking with three human rights activists in Chechnya, this reporter heard in-depth stories of at least seven incidents that were said to have happened over the span of several weeks, with the activists estimating that dozens had taken place.

    There will probably never be confirmation of who issued the order for the attacks, but Kadyrov certainly supported the campaign. “I don’t know [who they are], but when I find them, I will announce my gratitude,” he told local television last July. “Even if they were carried out with my permission, I wouldn’t be ashamed of it.”

    In a report on the enforcement of Islamic dress in Chechnya published in March, Human Rights Watch wrote: “The paintball attacks came several years into a quasi-official, though extra-legal ‘virtue campaign’ in Chechnya.”

    Kadyrov has also expressed support for honor killings. After seven women’s bodies were found by the side of the road two years ago, he said they probably had “loose morals.” “If a woman runs around and if a man runs around with her, both of them are killed.”

    The latest part in the “virtue campaign,” according to several women and activists in Chechnya, is state-aligned muftis standing on street corners, shouting advice at women about dress and behavior.

    It has become almost trite to say that Kadyrov has brought a veneer of peace to Chechnya, a small republic ravaged by two ruthless wars since the fall of the Soviet Union as Moscow put down a separatist rebellion. But scratch beneath the surface of Grozny’s sidewalk cafes and shiny new buildings, and the fear is constant.

    “I have never felt comfortable or at peace here,” said Zarema Magazieva, who works in the Grozny branch of Russian human rights group Memorial. She, like many Chechen women, walks a fine line between adhering to tradition and being forced to obey Kadyrov’s rules. On the one hand, she abides by strict family code that a man’s family has total say over children — when her brother disappeared, like thousands of Chechen men, in the early 2000s, his child came to live with her family, depriving his wife of custody, according to tradition. At the same time, she fears the state’s reaction to what should be a personal choice.

    “Once I saw two girls on the minibus without a headscarf,” she recounted. “On the one hand, I understand them, I think it’s great they do what they want. On the other hand, I’m scared for them.”

    Meanwhile, Bazaeva is staging her own mini-revolution. She has practice, having helped organize the first protests in Chechnya as Russia’s bloody crackdown began in the mid-1990s. Last year, her organization, Women’s Dignity, helped 26 women get drivers’ licenses.

    “It’s a step toward equality,” she said. “Little by little, women are breaking the barriers.”

    “During Soviet times, some Chechen women broke patriarchal stereotypes,” she said, recalling a famous pilot and poet and, even, at least one woman who drove. “But this process is backsliding.”

    It’s a slide encouraged by Kadyrov, who plays up a strict adherence to Islam, despite widespread tales of partying and corruption, as he battles the remnants of an Islamic insurgency.

    “He’s trying to be, as the saying goes, ‘more radical than the people,’ stricter than the radicals in these questions,” one activist said. The most visible way of doing that is by showing that women are under control.

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/...sia/110601/chechnya-women-islam-islamic-dress

    Holier Than Thou: Ramzan Kadyrov And 'Traditional Chechen Islam'

    Chechen Republic head Ramzan Kadyrov, arguably the most powerful -- and dangerous -- regional leader in the Russian Federation is resorting to increasingly draconian measures to impose his own eclectic vision of what constitutes "traditional Chechen Islam," along with the code of behavior, ethics, and dress he considers one of its key components.

    So far this year, Kadyrov has instituted the ideological vetting of all imams and dismissed those deemed incompetent; decreed a uniform schedule for daily prayers; and named an Islamic theologian to run a new website intended to promulgate Sufism and attract young believers who might otherwise be drawn to the websites of the various subdivisions of the North Caucasus Islamic insurgency that promote Salafi Islam.

    And since early June bands of masked men in military uniform have patrolled the streets of Grozny and fired paintballs at any woman not wearing a head scarf in line with an edict issued by Kadyrov in 2007.

    Two forms of Islam have traditionally coexisted side by side in Chechnya.

    Dogmatic or canonical Sunni Islam, represented by Shafii legal school, is followed primarily by the so-called official clergy, i.e. imams and leaders of officially registered congregations, which are overseen by Chechnya's Spiritual Board of Muslims. That school of Sunni Islam was tolerated in the Soviet Union, while Sufism, a more esoteric and internalized expression of Islamic teaching, was suppressed and driven underground.

    In 2005, a campaign was launched under then Chechen Republic head Alu Alkhanov to promote a variant of "traditional Islam" as a counterweight to salafism.

    When Kadyrov was named republic head three years ago, he set about intensifying that campaign, grafting selected elements of Chechen sufism and popular Islam on to traditional Sunni Islam. The resulting synthesis, which selectively borrows, and in some cases grotesquely distorts, the symbols and rituals of Chechen sufism while ignoring its essence, is the primary component of the ethno-territorial nationalism that Kadyrov energetically promotes as part of his efforts to position himself as defender and promoter of a new Chechen national identity.

    In October 2007, then Chechen Republic Ichkeria President Doku Umarov publicly proclaimed a pan-North-Caucasus Muslim emirate with himself as leader. That move effectively added a new, quasi-religious dimension to the competition between Kadyrov and Umarov for political control over Chechnya.

    Kadyrov's approach to that battle for influence is informed by a visceral fear and loathing of Salafi Islam, not, one suspects, so much on narrow doctrinal grounds as because of the threat the Islamic insurgency poses to his authority and his standing in the eyes of the Russian leadership. In that context, it is worth noting that Kadyrov never quotes verbatim from the Koran in his public pronouncements.

    Further evidence of his shaky grasp of the fundamentals of Islam is his predilection for naming mosques or other Islamic institutions after specific persons, including members of his own family. Caucasus Knot quoted a member of the Chechen clergy who asked not to be identified as pointing out that while doing so is contrary to the fundamentals of Islam, no one dare say so publicly for fear of being branded an "extremist."

    Parallel to redefining what constitutes "traditional Chechen Islam" and perfecting the various channels (the clergy, the official media, and the education system) whereby that concept is inculcated into the population from an early age, Kadyrov has simultaneously set about building an extensive Muslim infrastructure comprising mosques, an Islamic university, and a center for Islamic medicine.

    In addition to the grandiose Heart Of Chechnya mosque in Grozny -- inaugurated in October 2008 and reputedly the largest in Europe -- four new mosques opened in October 2009, including one in the village of Kurchaloi. Five more mosques, each with a capacity of 5,000 worshippers, were also reported to be under construction in Gudermes, Urus-Martan, Tsentoroi, Djalka, and Tsotsin-Yurt.

    A Russian Islamic University opened in Grozny in August 2009 to teach a five-year course comprising Islamic studies, the Koran, and the Arabic language; plus law, psychology, world history, and the Chechen and Russian languages.

    Construction of a school in Kadyrov's home village of Tsentoroi for hafizes (scholars who can recite the entire Koran by heart) got under way last year. A second such school, also for 100 students, will be built in Grozny.

    A center of Islamic medicine -- this reportedly, too, the largest in Europe -- opened in Grozny in February 2009. Its staff of 15 alims will treat up to 80 patients per day free of charge, by readings suras and ayats from the Koran.

    Given that the success of Kadyrov's indoctrination campaign depends in the first instance on the clergy, Kadyrov holds regular meetings both with Chechen mufti Sultan-hajji Mirzayev and with local imams and kadis. The message he conveys to them invariably focuses on the need to step up efforts to eradicate "wahhabism," meaning the Salafi Islam espoused by the North Caucasus insurgency, and to deter young men from falling for Salafi propaganda and "heading for the forest" to join the insurgents' ranks.

    At one such gathering last summer, Kadyrov angrily challenged the clergy to explain why young men "won't listen to you, but they will to that Said Buryatsky" -- the young convert from Buryatia who joined the insurgency in 2008 and served as its chief ideologue until his death in March 2010.

    At another such meeting, in January 2010, Kadyrov argued that "without a spiritually developed and highly moral society, the republic has no future." He stressed that "sermons by imams of mosques must reach the heart of every inhabitants of the republic, including those who are far from religion."

    That exhortation calls into question the effectiveness of the requirement, announced by Mirzayev in May 2008, that imams submit their Friday sermons to Chechnya's Muslim Spiritual Board for prior approval. Mirzayev's stated rationale was that "no one has the right to impose his reflections on the population" and that such evaluations would preclude "distortions of Islam" that could have "pernicious consequences." He did not say who would be responsible for the process, or by what criteria sermons would be evaluated.

    Last fall, a separate commission composed of five Muslim theologians was established within the Muslim Spiritual Board to assess the merits and competence of regional kadis and imams of local mosques. Valit Kuruyev, Mirzayev's first deputy, explained the introduction of that procedure in terms of the need to ensure that the clergy are exclusively men with a "profound knowledge of religion, who are capable of explaining the whole essence of Islam to society."

    The commission duly evaluated 325 imams and did not remove a single one of them. But in late April, Kadyrov complained to Mirzayev that some clergymen "only appear among their parishioners to conduct weddings and funerals" and "make no effort to combat wahhabism and extremism." Kadyrov ordered that the offenders be dismissed, and within two weeks nine imams were replaced in the Nozhai-Yurt and Shelkovksy districts alone.

    One imam of a mosque in Grozny Raion was dismissed in May, and a second warned of the need to shape up. It is not clear whether the 10 men dismissed were among the 325 who had successfully undergone scrutiny a few months earlier.

    One unnamed cleric told the website Caucasus Knot that the dismissals were simply a pretext to enable the Muslim Spiritual Board to kill two birds with one stone: get rid of those imams who refused to brand as "wahhabis" anyone who expresses the slightest dissatisfaction with or dissent from Kadyrov's policies, and provide jobs for a surfeit of unemployed mullahs.

    Also in early May, three of Chechnya's 18 madrasahs were temporarily closed for various reasons, including the poor quality of teaching.

    Meanwhile, there are tentative indications that Mirzayev (who like Kadyrov's late father Akhmed-hajji Kadyrov occupied a prominent position within the Muslim hierarchy in 1997-1999 under then Chechen President Aslan Maskhadov) may have reservations about Kadyrov's efforts to dilute orthodox Chechen Sunni Islam with elements of Sufism.

    In early March, Mirzayev summoned the leaders of the Naqshbandi and Qadariyya Sufi brotherhoods in Chechnya and warned them against attempts to introduce unidentified "innovations" that, Mirzayev said, "undermine the foundations of traditional Islam."

    Kadyrov's vision extends far beyond ensuring that the population can attend prayers regularly at newly built mosques whose imams are considered ideologically sound. The media, too, have been co-opted to promote Kadyrov's concept of "genuine Chechen Islam." In January 2008, Kadyrov issued instructions that the media, both state and privately owned, should reduce rebroadcasting of Western music and entertainment and increase the volume of programming devoted to religious and patriotic themes. He warned that those TV channels that failed to comply would be closed down.

    In November 2009, it was announced that a new radio station that would broadcast primarily on Islam-related topics would begin broadcasting "very soon." And last month a new website was launched with the specific intention of providing information about Islam and thereby undercutting the attraction insurgency websites have for the younger generation. It has already been hacked.

    Attendance at mosques across Chechnya is high, especially among persons over the age of 35-40. A recent poll of 200 residents of Grozny found that 43 percent attend prayers at a mosque once a week.

    But it is impossible to assess how many people do so only due to what one of the human rights activists who met last month with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev termed the "climate of fear" that pervades life in Chechnya under Kadyrov, and in which failure to attend Friday prayers carries the stigma of political unreliability.

    Any believer who dares criticize the official clergy risks being branded as a "wahhabist" sympathizer. A young man who sought to challenge Mirzayev's vilification of Said Buryatsky during a sermon last October as "an enemy of Allah" was summarily frog-marched out of the mosque; it is not clear what happened to him after that.

    Attendance at mosques is lower among the 18-35 age group, who can remember, if only vaguely, a normal, peaceful life prior to the first Russian invasion in December 1994. They are more likely to be attracted by Salafism than by Kadyrov's idiosyncratic take on Sufism.

    No effort is spared to brainwash children of school age. Children are required to study the basics of Islam, but the 30 lessons do not mention, let alone explain, the difference between Sunnis and Shi'a, nor do they mention the existence of wahhabism. In addition, from fifth to 11th grade, children attend weekly classes in "Vainakh [Chechen and Ingush] ethics," the only classes taught in Chechen not Russian.

    The message is reinforced by monitors in school buses that show clips about religion and about "Chechen national customs and traditions."

    Some Russian commentators have argued that Kadyrov has gone further toward building an Islamic state than the leaders of the Chechen Republic Ichkeria ever dreamed of doing. But Kadyrov has not formally proclaimed Shari'a law, as Maskhadov did in February 1999 under pressure from the radical Islamists among his subordinates.

    On the contrary: when a French journalist recently quoted Kadyrov as saying that in his opinion, Shari'a law takes precedence over the laws of the Russian Federation, Kadyrov's press spokesman immediately demanded a formal explanation, claiming that Kadyrov had been misquoted.

    http://www.rferl.org/content/Holier...v_And_Traditional_Chechen_Islam_/2073626.html
     
  3. LosPollosHermanos

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    30,053
    Likes Received:
    14,109
  4. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,797
    Likes Received:
    20,456
    Have you concluded that the suspects were Muslims? Or did you just want to post some evils about a brand of Islam while you had the opportunity?

    I have no idea whether or not the suspects are Muslim. I have no reason to really suspect either way.

    I'm just curious if you've already jumped to that conclusion.
     
  5. LosPollosHermanos

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    30,053
    Likes Received:
    14,109
    Sorry its kind of hard believing this was due to religon. I feel like there is some other motive here we will probably never know.
     
  6. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 1999
    Messages:
    4,013
    Likes Received:
    952
    It's already been reported that they are/were and tending toward traditionalism.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,898
    Likes Received:
    39,875
    He's responding to the leader's statement that if these kids were evil then it must because of the United States.
     
  8. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    27,105
    Likes Received:
    3,756
    Yeah, it's not like there have been multiple interviews including family that have confirmed they are ROPers.
     
  9. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    Exactly. I don't understand how this is hard to understand. Well, it's FranchiseBlade. Anyway, my point is that this guy is rushing to deflect blame and instead blames the USA - not surprising considering his ideological background.
     
  10. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,974
    Likes Received:
    2,358
    The dead suspect was a very religious Muslim boxer

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/19/dead-boston-bombing-suspect-was-a-very-religious-muslim-boxer/
     
  11. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,985
    Likes Received:
    36,838
    in the Hangout, basso brought up the first suspect's name.

    Tamerlane (and variants of that name) was a medieval Islamic warlord, famous for defeating Christian armies and others across the middle east.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur

    PS : am not interested in any conclusion or another. Just trying to piece together what tiny facts we have.
     
  12. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,898
    Likes Received:
    39,875
    I believe the name was also shared by a Chechen rebel leader? I think I heard that on 740 this morning.
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,814
    Likes Received:
    41,283
    Timur/Tamerlane/variants is a pretty common name throughout central asia, it's like naming somebody Alexander.
     
  14. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,797
    Likes Received:
    20,456
    Cool. Thanks I hadn't heard this. That's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.
     
  15. DreamRoxCoogFan

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2007
    Messages:
    3,661
    Likes Received:
    175
    It's pretty simple- if these guys hurt and killed people, then they aren't Muslim.
     
  16. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,985
    Likes Received:
    36,838
    QFT. Alexander wasn't a very nice guy either, TBH.

    [/ignorance], or at least until my next post.
     
  17. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,797
    Likes Received:
    20,456
    not seen by me until texxx was kind enough to link me to that article, and Deji was kind enough to inform me that it had already been confirmed.

    I'm grateful for that.

    Why are you so sour? Is this some kind of competition to you where not knowing something is horrible? It would be different if I claimed the two were not Muslims. I said they well could be but I didn't know. So I asked if ATW had already jumped to that conclusion. Your posts always come off as bitter. Maybe it's just me.
     
  18. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2000
    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    36
    I knew this was the work of heterosexual white male Christian conservative Tea Party tax protesters and not Mooslims. I just knew it!
     
  19. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,680
    Likes Received:
    11,734
    You are debating semantics (What do Muslims believe?).

    If these people murdered random innocent strangers and they declare themselves Muslim, then it goes a long way to speak to their motivation. That being said their motivation is meaningless to me. Why would I care what bat**** crazy reason they give for murdering children?
     
  20. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    27,105
    Likes Received:
    3,756
    It seemed obvious to me you were being snarky towards ATW while at the same time being misinformed.
     

Share This Page