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D’Antoni explains why he doesn’t like calling timeouts

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by hcw128, May 21, 2019.

  1. ISOBall

    ISOBall Member

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    All this says to me is Dantoni does **** all during timeouts. James probably shares stories of the biggest fattest ass he was onto @ the club the previous night and then- oh hey let's go back out there!!!!
     
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  2. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    no evidence that supports the anthony is a championship coach.
     
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  3. Fl Br

    Fl Br Member

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    It makes James Harden more in control of the game
     
    amaru likes this.
  4. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    Thanks @snowconeman22 for being the voice of reason. I totally agree with the predictability of our play and reliance on data as rule. It works over a stretch of games, on average, but you still need that crucial feeling for what’s going on in a game and forget about rules and data. To go with your gut.

    That is where this focus on data goes wrong in my opinion and pushes it to the level of theory without context. You also cannot be that stubborn because it has worked out somehow or data shows this or that. I am sure that is why people bash analytics.

    There’s no data for how successful doing something unexpected would be for example, and not even a 1000 games played could provide the data that could predict even with 30% accuracy how a timeout or certain play would affect the game or play out.

    Each game is different. That takes feeling, instinct, context: the crowd, who’s hot, who’s not, who’s tired, confidence of your group, referees, foul situation, foul trouble, injuries etc. Cannot rely on data to make that decision for you.

    To me, for all MDA does right, he misses the feeling and guts to adjust in game when it counts. Rudy T may or may not be on the level of MDA overall, but he had 3 crucial skills: motive his group, make timely adjustments and have the guts to change things up and for example put his faith in Cassell instead of riding Kenny home , like MDA did with Capela.

    You have to be willing to do whatever it takes to win, **** loyalty or feelings. Kenny’s ego almost got the best of him around january next season but they won so who cares? ****, the only reason MDA still has a job is because of Harden going HAM on the league. Gotta be willing to take risks.

    Since we walk it up anyway, we almost never run and take advantage of the fast break, use a timeout to throw them off. Try something. It’s 5 on 5 regardless and I really wonder how many people play or played basketball here. It definitely can be beneficial to get some motivation from your coach or best players. To get a bit more confident, coach calling a certain play and talk some stuff over.

    You relax a bit. And that’s a meaningless amateur game. I cannot even imagine games of this magnitude, but there’s nerves even if they won’t admit it so it can help to sit back and take a moment. Also given how in the Warriors series our late game execution wasn’t the best, turnovers, Harden walking it up with little time left and into double teams, a timeout might have helped.

    Last thing, that quote by Morey about coaching, I’d like to know how he feels about that now and how much coaching matters in general.
     
    #104 JW86, May 21, 2019
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  5. dwhite

    dwhite Member

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    Best post I have seen in years!!!
     
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  6. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

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  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Houston Knicks fan
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    your sauced thread about MDA getting fired was better
     
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  8. bmelo

    bmelo Member

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    The problem in alaytics is it's based on history. In high pressure moments something new happens and the quickest/better to react wins. You can prepare for variety of things - that's what good coaches do. Or you can jack the **** out of behind 3 pt line and count that maybe this time it will be perfectly normalized game... with weaker opponents it may work to some degree but when ball game is decided by small factors you will loose most of the time. For example - do analytics consider intimidiation that Green implies on character in type of Clint and lack of the effect on the guy like Nene? no - you need a ****in brain for that. What if they never met before? Analytics wont give you insight. But as a exprienced coach you should know that Clint is a cupcake/has a virus/whatever and Green is that dude that will press where hurts... yet... we play Capela because his lobs where something against suns and nets
     
  9. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

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    The armchair coaching is strong in this thread.
     
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  10. forchette49

    forchette49 Contributing Member

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    What does Popovich think about all this? Yeah, he likes calling time outs to stop runs, collect his troops, and actually call a play.

    But beyond that, his inability to make adjustments and short rotation with zero trust in his bench are absolutely frustrating to me... At this point I'd actually prefer Tyronne Lue, just to see this team from a different perspective if nothing else.
     
  11. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    I heard you can take your unused time outs and cash them into vacation points
     
  12. Red Hova

    Red Hova Member

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    Agreed that is coaching laziness. Even in his statement he's talking from an offensive perspective only. BTW our answer to that nonsense is to fire Jeff Bzdelik with no replacement? Yikes, we may be becoming the Lakers.
     
  13. Roxfreak724

    Roxfreak724 Member

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    On average, given all the coaches/teams in the league, the analytics probably do indicate that timeouts are not consequential.

    But what about data for the upper tier coaches? Would love to see a breakdown for Popovich's performance out of timeouts.

    Or what about just the initial offensive possession out of a timeout in late game 4th quarter possessions where the score is within 10 pts? Is there a difference between teams in how frequently they score?

    I disagree with D'antoni's quick handed skepticism of this issue, I believe he needs to put more thought into rather than simply accepting data that likely already supports his predisposition
     
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  14. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    So all these times Poppovich and Kerr called early timeouts had no effect on the outcome of the game?
     
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  15. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Loser’s bias is a lot of what I’m seeing here. It’s like none of you care about defense or rebounding. No we all care about is predictability and timeouts. Everyone wants to talk about what doesn’t matter.
     
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  16. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    I know it's mentioned in the article in the OP, but the actual article is a pretty decent read :

    https://www.si.com/nba/2019/05/02/s...ens-brett-brown-nba-coaches-playoffs-timeouts

    Some excerpts from the above article :

    • In 2015-16, the season before the Rockets hired Mike D'Antoni, they finished 15th in timeouts. Since his arrival they have been dead last every year.
    • This season Houston was charged with a staggering 133 fewer timeouts than the league-leading Bulls.
    • D'Antoni thinks back to his brief tenure as associate head coach of the 76ers. They won 10 games in 2015-16 and were charged with 666 timeouts, 41 more than any other team. But D'Antoni never challenged Philadelphia coach Brett Brown about all the voluntary stoppages. "The biggest thing, I thought," he says, "was that it ate into my dinner time." (lol)

    A lot of quotes in there where some coaches are stingy with timeouts like Kerr and Nurse who they say take after Phil Jackson, while others aren't so stingy. There's a funny story in there about Jackson calling a timeout just for fun with the score 8-6. lol.

    BTW, when they say Houston was charged "with a staggering 133 fewer timeouts than the league-leading Bulls", I'm trying to figure out why that's so "staggering". I mean, it amounts to less than a 2-timeout difference per game, and I would hope a sorry team like the Bulls may call more timeouts than teams with better records (but that's only a hunch, and I can't confirm without actually seeing the data).
     
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  17. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    Uniquely settled into this thread.
     
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  18. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    I, too, was doing the arithmetic on the 'staggering' and found it a wee less so. Thanks for also noting.
     
  19. BHannes2BHonest

    BHannes2BHonest 2 SOLID FOR WEIRD AZZES
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    Him calling a timeout would allow the opposing coach 60 plus seconds to thoroughly out coach him.
     
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  20. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    We don't base decisions on what looks bad after the shot is taken. We base decisions on our options before the shot is taken. That's an important distinction.

    The other thing is I feel you have started taking Harden for granted. To most people, Harden is more likely to get hot and destroy a game. Harden is the most durable player in the NBA, he gets tired less than anyone else. Just watch Kawhi or Giannis right now. Appreciate what Harden does.
     
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