The real difference between the two is that harden is good in any system and mvp level in others, while Rubio makes Rahim rondo look like a sharpshooter and he's always injured. He's a fantastic passer and excellent defense who is historically atrocious shooter who is frequently injured and has a large contract in a league where money himself basically said the trend is toward more scoring point guards. I like him but you'd need to surfing him with Kyle korver / draymond green klay Thompson type players and a decent shooting of deandre Jordan type center, not the slightly below average shooters on the rockets. Let's let him go and hope he gets healthy someday and gets to a team like the warriors.
No no no. At least basketballholic makes sense and has arguable viewpoints. His issue is he thinks he's never wrong. Jcdenton's issue is he is never right. But I love his graphs and charts.
Agreed. Sorry i dont see the comp Rubio with Harden. Harden is mvp caliber and thats why u put the system around him. Rubio isnt even top15 pg.
The hornets need shooters badly. In this draft the two best shooters are booker and rjh. Thats why it doesnt make sense for them to aim for the pfs that are available at 16-20 or the pgs but it makes absolute sense to trade back for rjh. Now they could possibly try to trade back and unload Big Al's albatross contract so they have capspace to add a middle tier free agent wing like danny green. But I dont think many teams will have the cap to absorb him.
You know who might be better as a shooter than RJH and Booker? KAMINSKY!! HAND ME YOUR GUN AND BADGE RIGHT THIS INSTANT!
He's had Martin who is one of the better 3 point shooters in the nba, and Love who is probably the best jump shooting 4 in the nba.
The man is a thug. I dislike him more than probably any other NBAer. Yes, he'll play somewhere next season, just not PLEASE as a Rocket.
Matt Barnes won't be a Rocket. The guy who called Harden's mother a disgusting name and who went out of his way to say it's easy to get into Howard's head, just hit him a little bit (which is true)? Nah. Morey won't pick up the phone.
NBA teams are smarter now. Look how the Warriors ended up beating Memphis by exploiting Tony Allen's inability to hit a jump shot. Look how the Rockets and other teams have guarded Rondo and notice how negatively he affected Dallas' offense. Rubio is an awful jump shooter and will get exploited. I'd like to think an analytically savvy GM like Morey understands how damaging it is to an offense to have a weak link like Rubio that could be exploited.
The problem posters have with me is I simply state my OPINION without cushioning it with a bunch of "I think" lead-ins. I've been taught by professionals not to write that way or speak that way. It's part of my job training and I've done it for so long that it's second nature. NOBODY thinks they are wrong......including you. Neither do I. However when I realize I have been wrong and I have misjudged a player/coach/team or situation....I have no trouble admitting it. Even the highest paid professionals in the basketball business are wrong many times. It's not a matter of if they are ever wrong. It's a matter of how much they are right versus wrong. Enough of that crap. I'd rather talk basketball with basketballers, not sociology/philosophy with babblers.
basketballholic, I would ordinarily agree with most posters giving your explanations above. However, you both (A) are one of the more knowledgeable posters here about salary cap matters, which leads many of the less-informed posters to be inclined to take what you say as fact; and (B) claim to have insider information as to the goings-on of the Rockets and other teams, leading many to guess as to whether your statements are opinions or actual inside information. For most, this would all be a matter of semantics. But not for you. Your apparent knowledge and proclaimed insider status (or at least having access to inside information) have seen to that. And to others, this is not intended to be some sort of disrespectful retort. Please restrain yourselves from personal attacks that further drag down this BBS. Thanks.
My problem with you is what I perceived as an inflated ego. The laughable signature, the claims of "sources," and like Bima pointed out, the blurring of your opinion with what you claim to be "inside" info. I'm skeptical and think at best you are exaggerating your information. You have delusions of grandeur and are not a useful poster such as cyberx
Basketballholic, I think I'm wrong frequently and I understand when I might not be right that it's ok to be diplomatic. You seem to be a really smart guy with lots of insight. But doesn't the fact that virtually every poster in this board think you oversell your position (that's being diplomatic) indicate that maybe you've been going a little too overboard? Also I've never seen you admit you were wrong on anything (like the argument that past history isn't an indicator of future history, which is just wrong medically and statistically). But I'll assume that I just missed that. In any case I agree. Let's just talk about basketball. Believe or not I actually enjoy most of your basketball posts.
Have you ever admitted anything about that guaranteed election prediction of yours or does a new moniker obfuscate the need?
Every player, including Lebron and Curry, has weaknesses that can be exploited. What a good team does is cover up for each other's weaknesses. What a championship team does is the very best job in the NBA of covering each other's weaknesses. The problem Memphis had was not Tony Allen's inability to hit a jump shots. You're making a perfect case in point for what I've been trying to say about the T-Wolves. The problem Memphis had (and has) is they are one of the worst 3-point shooting TEAMS in the association and have been one of the worst 3-point shooting teams in the association for the last several years. Minnesota has the same problem. Despite having Love and KMart....Minnesota has still been one of the worst 3-point shooting teams over the last 3 seasons that Ricky has been there. And it hasn't been because Ricky is dragging them down. Ricky shoots such a small percentage of the team's 3-balls that even if you take him out of the equation their 3-point shooting percentage still stinks. Over the last 4 seasons since Rubio has been in town, Minnesota has shot a total of 1929/5878 for a glorious 32.8% from the 3-point line, tied with Charlotte for the WORST 3-point shooting percentage over that time period. Ricky Rubio made up a miniscule 6% of those numbers shooting a miserable 31.35% from 3. When you subtract Rubio's 3-point shooting numbers out of Minnesota's 3-point shooting numbers, their 3-point percentage raises up to 32.9%, a 1/10 of 1% difference. Let's suppose we replace Ricky's 116/370 with a shooter that shoots 40% from 3. That would be an additional 32 3-balls added to Minnesota's totals and their 3-point shooting percentage would be raised up to 33.3% from the 3-point line, tied with Philly at the second worst 3-point shooting percentage in the league over the same time period. So, you see, Rubio simply doesn't shoot the 3 in enough volume to move the needle one way or the other substantially for the T-Wolves. The problem the T-Wolves is they have played a bunch of guys that can't shoot the 3-ball together. Doesn't matter that Love was there for 3 of those 4 years shooting 35.8% on a huge volume of 3's. The truth is Love took way too many 3-balls and was not efficient with them. And even though Martin has hit them at a good rate, between the two of them (Martin and Love) they've only taken 23.5% of the 3-ball shots Minnesota has taken over the last 4 seasons. Minnesota surrounded Rubio and Love with the worst 3-point shooters in the league. Rubio's 3-ball or lack of 3-ball doesn't change that fact. Don't know how much clearer I can make this to understand. ====================================== As for Memphis, they shot 1487/4349 for 34.2% from the 3-point line over the same past 4 seasons, good for 5th worst in the league over that time frame. Tony Allen was responsible for approximately 2.5% of those numbers. If you take Tony Allen out of the equation completely, Memphis 3-point shooting percentages barely move to 34.37%. If you make Allen a 40% 3-point shooter it elevates MEM as a team up to 34.5%, good for 6th worse in the league instead of the actual 5th worst in the league with Tony Allen. ============================================== Now, you could make the case that Tony Allen hurts Memphis' floor spacing and thereby he actually hurts the offense more than just a miniscule couple tenths of a percent in 3-point shooting percentage. And I would agree with that. BECAUSE Tony Allen can neither shoot nor can he create for others. Nor can he put the ball on the deck and beat his man individually at a very efficient rate. Tony Allen is truly one-dimensional offensively. He can finish if he catches the ball at the rim. That's it. He can't shoot. And he can't handle. He can't distribute. He can't create. All he can do is catch and throw it down or lay it in. In fact, this is my same argument I have made repeatedly about Terrence. Except with one more caveat. Terrence can't defend his position either. Terrence is basically one-dimensional offensively with the finishes over inferior size, length, and athleticism, but that even gets watered down when he plays against the big boys. And Terrence gives it all back on the defensive end. He's not a plus defender. =============================================== But Rubio is not one-dimensional like either of those cases. Rubio is a great defender and a great creator and a great distributor and a great free throw shooter. Rubio has multiple great skill sets. Allen has one great skill set and his next greatest skill set (finishing) is probably the most common great skill set in the league. ============================================== But in both Memphis' and Minnesota's case, they are still 2 of the 5 worst 3-point shooting teams in the league even if you replaced Allen and Rubio with 40% 3-point shooters. ============================================= Rubio will average double-digit assists and over 2 steals a game when he finally gets on a team that has good 3&D players on it. Look up how many guys in the history of the league have averaged double-digit assists with 2+ steals, and 5+rebounds. That's a very short list of hall-of-famers there. And that's Rubio's game.
Very solid arguments. My one concern with it is that rubios bad shooting (and allen's and rondo's) actually contribute to their teams' bad three point shooting beyond their actual numbers themselves. That is, there fact that Rubio etc is such bad shooters that the defense cheats off of them and are able to be in positions to cover their teams 3 point shooters therefore leading to more contested shots and lower than normal shooting percentages. Min had excellent shooters at the 2 (Martin) and 4 (love) compared to Houston. How much worse would it be with HOU? There's a reason Dallas' offense took a precipitous drop after rondo came - and he's a much better shooter than Rubio sadly. If Rubio were on the Warriors, I agree he would probably kill. Problem is only one team has their quality of shooters at all positions.
