Statistically Cat is a better shooter than Steve. On 2 ptrs and FTs he shoots better and basically the same on 3 ptrs. Also looking at how they get their shots, you claim that steve can get his own shot better than Mobes, yet last year when Mobes was the number 1 option, he scored more than Francis ever has, at a higher percentage than Francis has since becoming a 20 ppg scorer. I am pretty sure when he was the only one out there, defenses where focusing on Mobley. If Steve could so easily play good defense, that only makes it all the more disappointing that he hasn't. I don't really care who can jump higher, get more rebounds, or what roles prople think they should play. Mobley proved that he could score more points at a higher percentage than Francis and he plays better defense. That is all you want out of a shooting guard, so that is why Cat is the better 2. Steve is undoubtedly the better PG, but he has had trouble accepting the role of distributer and playmaker. I would rather he come around and become a Jason Kidd, John Stockton, or even Stephon Marbury style PG. His assists x 2 should be >= to his points. If he could do that and play defense, I would have no complaints about him.
This thread is totally a waste, since Mobley is no comparison with Francis, as indicated in Poll result. The way some view statistic of Mobley is a joke, why not just look Rockets' record statistic in recently 4 years before you look at Mobley's? The fact, Mobley played too more minitues, took too many shots, and Rockets was losing. In my opionion, Mobley is not even worthed his cheap contract, if you guys think he is valuable, just put him into Market and see what will happen, too many those types of players in NBA already. For Mobley, if he plays in a contolled way, I mean, limited minutes, limited role, he still can contribute this team. Right now, he is hurting this team, so I say he is "black hole" of this team.
So, what would you get for Steve Francis in this ridiculous little scenario? A PG with equal talent to him? Do you think teams are that ****ing stupid? And don't even try and say put Mobley at point because that would make this team worse than it already is.
I think the majority of the "keep francis" posters on this board place too much value on "Keep francis cuz he's a star" and don't pay enough attention/care about actual value. Can you posters who responded with that answer come up with something better? Popularity will make you an all star starter *ahem* but that doesn't mean you are really good enough and deserving.
I agree with what DVauthrin said. If Mobley is the only man in the team (say, Francis is injured), Rockets is bottom fish in the league, no doubt about that (before Ming can carry the team); If Mobley is gone, and Francis remains in team, the Rockets will at leave be at same level, if not better. That's the difference. There is always a reason for a guy who got max contract, and another guy who got cheap contract. If ohter NBA players can get same opportunities as Mobely in Houston, in term of numbers of balll touches and plays, NBA will produce many players whose statistics looks more impressive then Mobley. The truth is, Mobley got the shot he want, and Rockets sinks. Don't complain about Mobley's contract, he is only worth that much. And Mobley is just a SO-SO defender, becuase he is too small, he always got burned when he defends SG bigger then him, like Kobe. If you look better defender and contributor, just look at Bowen of Spurs, he is real expert on Defense and he can shoot 3, much better then Mobley, and of cuz much more valuable then Mobley.
Can we see it this way. Last season when Rockets won like 29 games, what was our record when Francis was injured and Mobley was our main option. I belive it like a .25 winning percentage. When Francis actually played and he was the main option we were above .500. Isnt that just scary. It just shows you that the way Mobley scores really hurts our team, and the way Francis scores gives us a winning record.
Same thing with what you said. When Mobley was the main option last year we were waaaaaaaay below .500. When Francis played last season we were above .500. So how can you say Mobley is more valuable to this team than Francis!!!! Yall keep Mobley supporters are so ignorant. " But Mobley has .5 higher 2 pt percantage" **** that ****.
Ok, Mobley does not have the responsibility of getting every one else's points. The only think Mobley has to focus on is getting points on the board. If this was the same for Francis there is no doubt Steve is the better 2.
Francis is not twice the player yet he makes twice the money. Now way in hell I would take Francis over Mobley. Add to that, I do not think you will EVER be able to build a championship team around Francis (meaning he is the first option) and Francis thinks he is the man and Mobley knows his role. Mobley any day. Who is the more talented or ahtletic of the two? Francis. But I still would not want him over Mobley as things stand.
Exactly, and Moniker can you shut up about 2 pt percentage. That is the only ****ing argument you got and it even doesnt mean anything. The fact that Mobley has a slightly higher 2pt% is becasue Francis has to create his own shot and take way more tougher shots than Mobley has to take. So ofcouse hes going to have a higher 2pt percentage. If we use Stupid Monker's logic of 2pt percentage, Mobley is more valuable than Kobe Bryant . Because guess what Moniker, Mobley has a higher 2pt percentage than Kobe.
Why... Becasue last year Mobley has an awsome below .300 record when he was playing without Francis, and Francis had a horrible above .500 record when he actually played. And why cant you build a championship team around Francis and Yao. Francis is like one of the top 10 talented players now in the nba. He sure got the stuff. He just needs some good coaching and a change in position(sg).
Good points DV. This argument imo is a complete waste of time. The odds of Steve Francis being traded are between slim and none, you can count on that. The big attraction of the Rockets position is to coach Yao and Steve not Yao and Cuttino. I understand that Steve can fetch more in a trade scenario than Mobley b/c there is no question he is a better player/talent, but its going to be near impossible to get equal value for Steve. Steve Francis has been a career 20-6-6 player and yet is still nowhere near his potential. Cuttino is essentially a one dimensional player that can put up 20 pts if he gets enough shots. Not to mention, when folks feel like dissecting the hell out of FG% and showing that they have so called great math wizardry, why not consider the FT column. Cuttino simply does not get to the line enough which is something the true superstars do. This is why Steve can put up the points a whole lot easier. Instead of dissecting the **** out of a tiny FG% differential look at the complete picture. This is basketball folks, please dont try to dissect every minute stat like they do in baseball and act you have discovered something great. There is no room for the Rob Neyer's of the world in basketball. Also, anyone who still believes this team is going to get Kidd for Francis is absolutely nuts. Stop with the "dreamcasting" folks. NJN will not be backed into these wild scenarios that have been proposed by some. The Rockets will enjoy the next dynasty built around Yao and Francis. Deal with it.
I am assuming you have a brain and you just failed to use it. When you take away the person who regularly gets a majority of the shots, the team will likey suffer. Not to mention that this team is built around Francis, yet the best the team can do is .500? Is that acceptable to you???? You are probably the same person who questions Kobe's skills b/c he can not win with Shaq out. Well incase you do not have the brain that I earlier referenced, let me make one simple explanation. When Francis is out, not only are you losing a player who is a major cointributor, you are also losing depth. Where Moochie is normally going to lend you 5-12 min per game all of the sudden you are relying on him to give you 35 min, that alone will get you a .300 winning percentage. I will tell you this, if you built a team around Mobley and his $5 mil you would have a MUCH better team than the team that has been built around Steve, not only that, his big deal is about to kick in and you will be unable to sign anyone to the $9 mil in money that Rice will clear next year. What you see is what you get, this team's only hope is to draft players b/c they will have NO MONEY for the next 10 years if they plan on re-singing Ming.
I dont get it?? Whats your argument saying Mobley will make us win more than Francis. All you include is their salary. So you are saying a player with a higher salary is going to make this team loose??? Becasue obviously Francis is a talent that can make us win something big. How much talent do you need from one guy. I mean were already above.500 with him. All we need is to get the new coach, and remove our dirty sewage that clogs the drain(Mobley, Moochie, and Eddie Griffen), and get in return role players. Then we will see a championship team.
Where did you get that. All i was saying is that Moniker's argument that Mobley has a higher 2pt% than francis doesnt mean ****. If we used Monkier's logic than Mobley would be more better at sg than Kobe which is insane. Is there something i said there that was wrong????
Exactly. This thread is worthless. How can you compare Francis to Mobley. There in totaly different levels. You can see by the poll results that most of the francis supporters(75%) dont bother arguing, becasue they know who is more valuable to this team. Its freakin Black and White. We are here just to correct Mobley supporter's logic.
Yup very true farhan. I wasnt even going to bother posting in this thread, but there is only so much garbage you can read before you have to post something. This IDENTICAL argument was brought up just a few weeks ago, why does the same thing have to be brought up over and over and over again? Its really annoying. I want to see what the Mobley lovers have to say when this team finally is built around Yao and Steve under a new coach, and Mobley is busy jacking shots in Clippervile or some place of that caliber.
The rockets winning percentage last year when mobley didn't play was .000. If cuttino had missed a lot of games and only francis had been there they would have been bad anyways. The rockets record without mobley this year was 4-5. Mobley is a valuable contributor to this team and steve francis is not that much better than him esp. when factoring in the contract.
Give evidence that Francis is just slightly better than Mobley. If Francis was slightly better than Mobley he would just be another Van Horn, or Eric Snow....
Every article I've read and every quote I've seen (ref: Van Gundy) basically says "they've got a good young nucleus in Yao and Steve and they play the two most important positions." Steve isn't as disliked around the country as he is here. Alot of commentators (whatever they're worth, I know) marvel about Steve. Now, does Steve need a swift kick in the butt occasionally? Without a doubt.
