That might be a good argument if Cat hadn't actually shot better last year when he was the only option.
Steve Francis 81 40.99 571-1313 43.49 476-595 80.00 85-240 35.42 499 6.16 6.20 1.74 .51 3.69 21.02 Cuttino Mobley 73 41.68 463-1067 43.39 242-282 85.82 112-318 35.22 303 4.15 2.85 1.30 .49 2.27 17.53 OK, no flame, but I just need explanation on the efficient scoring thing. Francis, last year shot higher from two and three point land (negligible difference in both), so how is Cuttino more efficient? On the strict basis of shooting percentage, wouldn't it mean that everytime Steve shoots from two, he has 43.49% chance of making it while Cuttino has a 43.39% chance? Or does Steve's big advantage at free throw shooting hurt his efficiency? I just need it explained to me (laymen's terms please) and I will understand. Does it have anything to do with Steve taking more shots per game?
Pole:- the question is not who has the better stats or who is the better scorer/dollar. The question is which player would be better to keep, regarding the fact that they will be more coachable in playing Team Basketball. Unlike last season when the ugly,selfish, iso game was the rule of the court.
What's the use of starting a thread like this other then to start an entire Mobley bashing fest, with some Francis bashing thrown in for flavoring.
It's because OF the shots they both took, Cat took a greater percentage of three point shots (which weigh more heavily by virtue of the fact that they count the most). Even though Francis shot two tenths of a percentage point better from behind the arc, Mobley's three point attempts made up a larger portion of his overall shot attempts. Think of it this way: player A and player B both shoot 1000 times during a season. The both should 50% from inside the arc, but player A makes 800 shots from inside the arc and 200 from outside. Player B makes 500 shots from inside the arc and 500 from outside. Player A also shoots 50% from behind the arc, but player B only shoots 40% from behind the arc. Even though their averages are different, they both score 1,100 points in the season....Why? Because player B (even though his 3 point percentage was lower) made up a larger percentage of his overall shots with the higher scoring three pointers. Now....does all this mean anything? Not a whole hell of a lot. Even though I've shown that Mobley is a more "efficient" scorer, and I think all of us agree that he's a better defender, I still believe that Francis is the better overall player. The ability to get open for more threes isn't enough to make Mobley better. My whole point in all of this is that even though I think Francis is a better ball player, I don't think it's by a whole lot. The only big difference between the two is salary.
I got it now. Also, the 43.39% isn't just two pointers, it includes 3 pointers. Thus, factoring out the 3 point numbers, Cuttino shot better inside the arc. Makes sense now. As for the poll, I voted to keep Steve. I think he has a chance to get better and I can't imagine Cat getting any better. Steve also has more steals and a better assist/to ratio. Plus, he's a better rebounder. I also can't forget Cuttino scoring ten points on the Bulls in the last two minutes of a blowout while Steve took himself out of a game when he was one assist or rebound short of a triple double. I don't mind Cuttino on the team, but I think he used to pad his stats quite a bit.
Trade them both. Cat this year. Franchise next year. (not byc). ========================== eg. : Cat+Tmo for Derek Anderson why Portland - get Cat. why Houston - get DA. wait one year Francis for Brand (FA sign and trade) why Clips - Brand is bye bye why Rox - small for big Cast your own scenarios. Trade Cat today, Francis tomorrow.
Okay Francis scored way more this season, rebonded more this season, assited more this season, blocked more this season, stole more this season, went to the line more this season!! Wheres the small difference? Francis is putting up Oscar Robinson numbers!!! Mobley well, hes not. There is a big difference between both. Francis is loved by many nba fans, is a superstar, while Mobley is a wanna be star.
Yeah, Mobley deferred to Yao, damn him. How could he not go out and try to put up bigger numbers than he ever had before despite have a new 7'6" teammate sitting on the low block.
Francis scored a BIT more this past season. Did you happen to notice he's supposed to be the point guard? No one needs to feed him the ball....he's already got it. He assisted more this season? Well, you got me there....who woulda thunk it? Our point guard has more assists than our shot guard. He rebounded more? Talk about padding stats. Most of them were defensive? Is that what you want your point guard doing? Granted....I have to blame Rudy for that. Blocks and steals? Yes....Francis did more...and by a real significant margin too. My feelings stand. There ain't much difference. And seeing as you can make outlandish, ridiculous statments, I'll make one too: I bet Cat's numbers would have been better than Francis' if Cat was at the one and Francis was at the two. It's not too hard to rack up stats in an ISO offense when you're the one carrying the rock.
A few more points should be made: Cat wants to be here more than Francis. Cat took less money to be here, Francis *no doubt* demanded a max contract. How many of you think Francis won't bail if we give him less money after his contract is up? That's what I thought. I'd rather have better performance/dollar ratio than a popular kobe wannabe (francis) who think's he's still the #1 option on this team....re: "FRANCHISE" player.
This debate is foolish, and silly. If Steve was injured for most of the year and it was Yao and Mobley's team, we would be the 20 win vancouver grizzlies. I know statistics are a useful tool and all to evaluate players, but there really is no comparison here. Steve Francis is a combo guard and a damn good one. Cuttino Mobley is a shooting guard best suited for having a Microwave Vinnie Johnson role on a good club. Steve has a better shot, better athleticism and his only area of weakness compared to Cuttino is defense. But that's all hustle and something he can correct really easily. But yes he needs to do it soon. Also look how Cuttino and Steve score their points. Most of the time Mobley holds the ball 5-10 seconds and shoots his fadeaway. If he did that as a number 1/2 option we would suck. He hits wide open 3's a decent amount of the time, but it's because Steve or Yao have set him up. Steve can create his own shot with his crossover and dribbling skill. Cuttino can to an extent but not nearly as easily or as well. Plus defenses are geared in the league to stop Steve, and have been for years now. Mobley is a thought but they'll give him his if they can contain Steve/Yao. Finally this whole clutch shot argument became hogwash this past season. Steve hit numerous game winning or tieing buzzer beaters this year, like Miami/LA in particular. Mobley wasn't taking them anymore, notice that. If you are asking can Francis command more than mobley in a trade, of course, because he is a superior player and talent. But there is no way all things equal that Cuttino Mobley is a better basketball player than Steve Francis. In fact, because of our previous Iso ball, Mobley is our version of Antoine Walker, an overrated player who is overhyped because of putting up lots of shots in an offense designed for him.
