By the way...this is absolutlely prohibited, by means of the collective bargaining agreement, in MLB. They are very specific in stating that the players shall not act in concert with one another.
Guys the more you really look at this...its more than just being bitter that they chose miami...this is a serious matter. Think if you were chicago, nyk, cleavland and toronto. I think it is more than just collusion and tampering....it was sabatoge. They knew where they were going and so did the heat...it would be the ONLY way miami risked what they did. All that bron to chi and wade to chi stuff was just trying to let the rudy gays and the joe johnsons and the amares of the world be scattered (to avoid a team like chi going after amare and joe johnson as a priority instead of wade and bron)...also if they really knew where they were going they screwed cleavland and toronto out of S N Ts last year that would have helped the team out. That never happens...the deliberately sabotged those teams just to make sure they could get S N Ts with Miami the next offseason. Thats why Bosh didnt demand a trade he lied to colangelo making him think he might come back...same with bron... There are several teams/cites involved, millions of dollers in marketing, and hundreds of jobs that are affected by this. This more than "sour grapes" as some are calling it. They planned to screw teams out of concentrating on the other FAs...the make their paths easier... if they would have came out of the gate and signed with Miami.... We would have seen JJ and Amare to chi or both to knicks because theyd want to form there own Trio. At first I was thinking man this sucks they are all in miami...now im thinking this was illegal and very damaging to the nbas economy.
im with ya....but i DO think that he will check it out and something will be implemented for the future to protect the league
i think the heat had it planned out ever since they got together for the us in the world championships
agree....but collusion isn't so narrowly defined as to only mean price-fixing, right? particularly if there are ancillary benefits for each in 1. agreeing to play together at one spot; and thereby 2. drowning out competition for other franchises in signing them COLLECTIVELY OR INDIVIDUALLY. Here's the Black's Law Dictionary definition of collusion: http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=232 collusion n. where two persons (or business entities through their officers or other employees) enter into a deceitful agreement, usually secret, to defraud and/or gain an unfair advantage over a third party, competitors, consumers or those with whom they are negotiating. Collusion can include secret price or wage fixing, secret rebates, or pretending to be independent of each other when actually conspiring together for their joint ends. It can range from small-town shopkeepers or heirs to a grandma's estate, to gigantic electronics companies or big league baseball team owners.
Well lets take it a step further: if they did indeed collude and work in the manner you are suggesting, then its clear that coming out the gates immediately and announcing Miami would have been more evidence of their collusion and working behind the scenes. If this were to occur, I'm almost certain that calls for an investigation would be unanimous, which begs another possibility: perhaps Miami/DWade instructed the trio to play it out for a little bit in order to present themselves as indecisive at first. This does a few things: -quells collusion rumors to a certain extent -since they actually met with other teams, it shows the league offices that they considered all teams before making their decision -it builds hype and sensationalizes free agency This is obviously all speculation, and realistically speaking even if this occured, the NBA simply wouldnt allow it to come out....
Yes but if we're talking about the Sherman Act, the collusion must be "in restraint of trade" An alley-oop from Wade to LeBron isn't an act in restraint of trade. Nor is a trade between the Rockets and the Knicks. An agreement that LeBron and Wade would set bidding floors for endorsements is something different.
what about an agreement...starting with a meeting in November...that they would all play the free agent game...but that in the end, they would all agree to play together in Miami? how would that shake out? obviously, if the Heat were involved AT ALL in those meetings, we'd have tampering issues. i'd call that restraint of trade, but admittedly I don't deal with Sherman Act stuff on a daily basis. my experience with it ended in law school.
Probably a good time to remind people that multiple sources said Bosh was more interested in his documentary film crew than he was with anything his hosts were telling him as he visited non-Miami teams and entertained offers. The same Bosh who said "months." Aquaman/Hawkman is the weak link, I think.
Under rule of reason analysis - it's got to have some anticompeitive effects on the relevant market. The relevant market is the market for NBA player contracts - how does a move by all 3 players to get max contracts in a single location (as opposed to multiple locations) have anticompetitive effects on the market for NBA player contracts? It doesn't seem to have any effects whatsoever - the market for David Lee was the same on Friday as it was on Thursday, and he got the same amount of moneyas people had predicted. In fact, at least from the point of view of their competitiors (other players) the fact that they went in S&T's probably left more overall cap room for them, leaugewide. But the effect was probably a net neutral sicne the cap amount (and thus the overall revenue pool for players) is fixed anyway, as was the Big 3's max salary. Again, the fact that something had anticompetitive effects in terms of wins and losses isn't really the same - that's not the relevant market for antiturst analysis here I don't think.
Mark Cuban I guess is the only one with enough balls to protest, or at least he doesn't care so he's just asking the league to investigate for the hell of it and piss Miami off. Gotta love him for that.
players decide to go play on teams with friends or to try to win all the time. Karl Malone and Gary Payton colluded when they signed with the Lakers?
So true. Alot of posters on this board are mad because those assets didn't mean squat or maybe no one sees yao as great despite what people on this board think of greatness. Bottomline is, Wade was only ever considering chicago, his hometown. Everyone knew bosh was going with lebron or wade. Even before they were free, they're good friends and can talk about playing ball together. When the free agency period started and riley was selling them on taking less to play together, it was a wrap. He told them how the 80's lakers did that. Then once he had bosh and wade, he pulled out the rings for lebron. Other than the lakers,spurs,celts, who can show the gold?. I'm sure riley showed bosh that also and talked about how he did in 05. Its all about a sell job and he sold it. Clde daid he and dream talked about playing together all the time but didn't think it would ever happen. http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1995_1257020 Houston Chronicle Archives NOW 90 o NEWSSPORTS BUSINESS ENTERTAINMENT LIFE TRAVEL BLOGSJOBSHOMES CARS BUY & SELL Mobile | SMS Drexler profile/TRADING PLACES/Self-admitted "Houston guy' lives a dream JOHN P. LOPEZ Staff WED 02/15/1995 HOUSTON CHRONICLE, Section Sports, Page 2, 3 STAR Edition Share Print Share Del.icio.usDiggTwitterYahoo! BuzzFacebookStumbleUponAs he walked off the floor of The Summit and into the arms of Clyde Drexler on Tuesday night, Rockets coach Rudy Tomjanovich told the newest Rocket, "Hey, this is a dream come true, huh?" Yes, Tuesday's blockbuster trade with the Portland Trail Blazers for Drexler and (oh, by the way) Tracy Murray was the Dream's dream come true. It was the Glide's dream, too. And in all probability it was all of Houston's dream, considering how the heart and soul of Phi Slama Jama -- possibly this city's most beloved sports team next to Luv Ya Blue -- is together again. "Ever since Hakeem (Olajuwon) and I left Houston, we've wanted to play together again," said Drexler, who has been one of the NBA's best scorers of the past decade on top of being one of Houston's oldest and dearest friends. Drexler was born and raised in Houston, became a star at Sterling High and then at the University of Houston, and joined Olajuwon in taking the Cougars to the brink of a pair of NCAA championships. "They sure worked together well for three years," said Guy V. Lewis, who coached Drexler and Olajuwon at UH, including one season in which Olajuwon redshirted. "They both respect each other. I can't see how it wouldn't work out for everyone involved." Drexler seemed the happiest man on the planet Tuesday night -- with the possible exception of Olajuwon, of course. "I saw Hakeem briefly in the locker room after (Tuesday's 124-104 win over the Los Angeles Clippers)," said Drexler, who arrived at The Summit in dramatic fashion, walking through the tunnel to a standing ovation in the fourth quarter before sitting next to team owner Leslie Alexander, signing autographs and posing for pictures. "We both couldn't believe it," Drexler said. "We were laughing like little kids." Drexler was practically bubbly for several reasons. Despite making a tremendous career for himself in Portland, where he led the Blazers to the NBA Finals in 1990 and 1992, Drexler's relationship with the organization had soured in recent years. A season ago, the drop in talent and direction in the Portland organization became clear when the team fell to a 47-35 record and was eliminated from the playoffs in the first round by the Rockets. Then this season, P.J. Carlesimo took over as head coach for the Blazers and Bob Whitsitt, with whom Drexler has had several disagreements, entered as the new club president. "Past trade rumors and treatment," was what Drexler said was his biggest reason for wanting to find a new home in 1995. "That's about as much as I'm going to say," Drexler said. "I have a lot of good feelings for Portland. I have a lot of appreciation for the Blazers organization. "But you've got a new coaching staff, you've got players who are aging and they haven't been solidified at every position. It was just a new thing. You kind of get the feeling of, "Maybe they need to get a fresh start and not carry around old baggage from their past team.' "I was raised here in Houston. My relatives are here. This is a great moment." That was obvious from the moment Drexler walked into the building. "This is the one team that I really wanted to play for," Drexler said. "This is the one place I wanted to be. I've always been a Houston guy and this would have been my first choice." Actually, it always has been Drexler's first choice. Even in 1983, when Drexler was available to the Rockets high in the NBA draft, he dreamed of playing at home. But the Rockets took Rodney McCray instead. "I've thought about coming back off and on for quite a few years," Drexler said. "It's always been a dream of mine to play here as part of the home team. "Now, I couldn't be happier. This is a great thing. I really still can't believe it." All he wants now is a title ring just like the one Olajuwon wears. "It's going to be fantastic," Drexler said. "The Dream is the best center and the best player in the game. All he needs is a little help and we can get back to the championship. "I think the focus still is going to be on defense, because that's the way Rudy plays. We just have to blend our talents with the talents that already are here. From where we sit right now (five games out of first place), we have our work cut out for us. That means we have to get on the stick." .............................................................
i agree with you...i'm not focusing on the wins/losses thing. If 3 eye doctors coming together to discuss a proposed HMO contract is enough...then it seems to me that these guys coming together to discuss their offers and even agreeing together as to what they would ultimately do...is collusion. David Lee wouldn't have a case against them. It would be the owners who restructured everything to compete for the services of these guys...only to find they colluded and agreed to go to one team together before they were ever free agents. I'm kinda surprised the bargaining agreement doesn't spell this out more clearly....it does in MLB, and I'm guessing it does in the NFL. Though the clause they do have may leave enough flexibility for Stern to do something. We'll see where media pressure goes....NY being a market jilted by all this could prove influential. As I said before...if the Heat were involved in any of this, look out.
Lol I love how when Cuban whines against us everyone hates him, but when he whines against Miami he's "protecting the league." Which he is
I will say this (piggybacking on leebi's Riley reference): I have always wanted (and I mean by that some 20+ years) to see Riley get a running team again. He never had that chance post-Magic. New York had to be physical defending team as they lacked athletes. Miami was the same way to an extent. But it's possible that he can really run a show-time style system in Miami now, and that at least would be a silver-lining to all of this.
dont' lump me into either of those categories...i'm not sour grapes at all. i've been hated on here for being a Yao-detractor for a long long time.
