Well, there were some where the children were taken away at the port of entry when claiming asylum, but that was in cases where they didn't believe the children to be theirs and they had no proof otherwise and the children were separated until they could get to the bottom of it. It would be similar to if a person was suspected of kidnapping. Of course then that wouldn't necessarily be "their children", so what you said was still technically true, I just wanted to answer the obvious response you were about to get from our friends on the left before they managed to do so. Also, it's "your" not "you're"
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ald-trumps-separation-immigrant-families-was/ True. https://www.npr.org/2018/06/19/6210...y-separation-and-zero-tolerance-at-the-border More here. Again, this is just a flat-out lie. Previous administrations did not do this. You are also separated from your children when you take them off to school too. According to you. Until you provide a single shred of evidence to this claim I'll ignore it. I do know there are cases of people going through the right ports and still being separated. You also have to ask yourself if it is right to take children from people who are merely trying to immigrate. That is a moral question that should not be based on laws. One scenario the person knows where their child is at, at all times and one scenario they do not. So not, it's not similar. Look, Trump ended this. His words were he didn't want to separate families, was he wrong for ending it?
Actually, you and @Bobbythegreat are wrong. I'll quote the DHS here, I know it won't matter at all, you'll just continue the lie...but for everyone else to see... https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/06/15/fact-sheet-zero-tolerance-immigration-prosecutions-families So this whole bit about "Oh they are sneaking across the border and can't claim asylum!" is wrong. It's fine if you agree with Sessions that they do not qualify for Asylum. Again, that is another discussion entirely, but you are just wrong about the law here. They can claim asylum, this is according to the DHS.
You do realize that there is a class action lawsuit brought by parents who sought asylum at ports of entry and had their children separated from them, right? If you weren't aware, your claim is inaccurate. If you were aware then you are being dishonest. Either way, you are incorrect.
Trump made separating families a matter of standard practice. Obama did not. It’s not that no family was ever separated at the border under the Obama administration. But former Obama administration officials specify that families were separated only in particular circumstances — for instance, if a father was carrying drugs — that went above and beyond a typical case of illegal entry. We don’t know how often that happened, but we know it was not a widespread or standard practice. Under the Trump administration, though, it became increasingly common. A test of “zero tolerance” along one sector of the border in summer 2017 led to an unknown number of family separations. Seven hundred families were separated between October 2017 and April 2018. From May 7 to June 20, separating a family who had entered between ports of entry was the standard practice of the Trump administration. It was the default. Trump administration officials denied family separation was a “policy” for legalistic reasons, but they affirmed that “zero tolerance” prosecutions were a policy. Until Trump signed an executive order on Wednesday allowing families to be kept together in immigration detention while parents were prosecuted, the administration maintained that separating families was an inevitable outcome of prosecuting parents. Not every family was separated. But dozens of families a day were. At least 2,300 families were separated over those six or so weeks. We don’t know how many families were separated under the Obama administration, but there’s no reason to believe that it numbered in the thousands even over the eight years that Obama was president. Because it simply wasn’t standard practice. Under Trump, it was. https://www.vox.com/2018/6/21/17488458/obama-immigration-policy-family-separation-border
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/06/18/dhs-secretary-nielsens-remarks-illegal-immigration-crisis “And finally, DHS is not separating families legitimately seeking asylum at ports of entry. If an adult enters at a port of entry and claims asylum, they will not face prosecution for illegal entry. They have not committed a crime by coming to the port of entry.”
I never claimed the law that separates families was passed under Obama, it was passed in 1997. It was Obama's policy to not charge damn near anyone, so by ignoring the law most of the time there were less families separated under his administration....but it still happened and when it did it was exactly the same. The ONLY difference is that Trump sought to enforce the law more often. True. https://www.npr.org/2018/06/19/6210...y-separation-and-zero-tolerance-at-the-border More here. Again, this is just a flat-out lie. Previous administrations did not do this. Sure, in some ways that's true.....and if the DNC put out propaganda telling people that it was "cruelty" we'd have just as many people here agreeing with them. Well you could take the statements of those in charge, you could take the official policy.....I mean, what do you think is more likely, that everyone is lying and they really are charging people with something that isn't a crime, or that those who were charged were only those who were caught committing a crime that then claimed to be asylum seekers? If you have no next of kin to take custody of your children, you won't have any specific information as to exactly where your kid is, no different from illegals that get detained for breaking the law.
for many migrants, it isn’t so easy. “On paper it’s totally true,” says Adam Isacson, director for defense oversight at the Washington Office on Latin America, a human rights organization. “It’s perfectly legal to show up at a port of entry and ask the first officer you see. The problem is that at many border crossings, at places like El Paso, at Roma, we’re hearing that [Customs and Border Protection] is sending officers out to the very line and telling people on the bridge, ‘Nope, come back later.’ Or sometimes they even lie to them and tell them they can’t take them, until they give up and cross the illegal way.” Isacson has been monitoring the human impact of US border security since 2011. He and other members of WOLA flew to Yuma, Arizona, on Tuesday to monitor the situation. The region is currently about tied with El Paso for the second-most family crossings, behind southern Texas. At some crossings, Isacson says, guards have claimed “capacity issues”—that there isn’t any room for additional people seeking asylum. He notes that while “it does take a while to sit down and interview” asylum seekers, many advocates are reporting that housing for asylum seekers in places like El Paso is “half full.” https://www.motherjones.com/politic...arrest-at-ports-of-entry-its-not-that-simple/
Anyone can seek asylum, but it won't stop them from being detained for a criminal offense, I hope you realize that. You can attempt to claim asylum while being prosecuted for the crime you committed, why is it you think it can only be one or the other?
Not sure what the purpose is for posting that article. Even hardcore border hawks like myself don’t dispute that Obama did not separate families to the scale that Trump’s zero tolerance policy was. That’s irrelevant. Obama exempted large classes of illegals from the law. And look what happened. Illegals and smugglers caught on and learned that if you brought kids over here and were caught, you’d most likely wind up being set free. That’s why we’re facing the situation we are today. Criminal law needs to be enforced rigorously. No more exceptions. Look what it’s led to. I’m all for zero tolerance, separating families that are here illegally, and for a host of even harsher penalties I’d like to see added. These folks made the conscious decision to break the law.
Then wait on the Mexican side until the capacity opens up and you get an opportunity to be processed. Come back later, the next day, the day after. You will get processed eventually. Impatience and inconvenience is not an excuse for breaking the law and sneaking in to this country.
Since this has been brought up several times... Jeff Sessions to asylum seekers: Go to the ports, but at the border that's no easy task "We have seen an active effort to deter asylum seekers legally crossing the border to get to the inspection where they can actually petition for asylum or refugee status,” said Fernando Garcia, the executive director and founder of the Border Network for Human Rights. His group has documented many cases over the past few weeks of asylum seekers turned away from border crossings linking El Paso to Ciudad Juarez. Over the past week, media reports have also revealed U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers doing the same along other parts of the Texas border, from El Paso to Brownsville. Officers stand in the middle of the international bridges crossing the Rio Grande, turning away asylum-seekers. The situation is not much easier for migrants attempting to seek asylum at the ports of entry in the other border states. Lengthy waits at the ports Since April, dozens of men, women and children, some as young as just a few months old, began arriving to Nogales' DeConcini port of entry to seek asylum. There were no bridges or agents to turn them away. Much like the controversial caravan to Tijuana a few weeks earlier, they were immediately met with long wait times of up to five days to meet with an immigration officer to present their claim. “The situation is getting worse here in Nogales," Joanna Williams said. "Now we’re at 12 to 13 days of waiting.” Williams is the advocacy director for the Kino Border Initiative, a faith-based group that helps northbound and deported migrants in the area. With a limited response from the Mexican government, the initiative — along with other community groups — stepped in to coordinate food, legal aid, and shelter from the sweltering desert temperatures. The advocates even created a number system to keep order among the families. In response to these situations, Customs and Border Protection has said it has insufficient space and services, but that the agency is working "as expeditiously" as possible to process everyone. Homeland Security Secretary Kirsten Nielsen addressed those delays during her tour on May 31 of Nogales' DeConcini port of entry. She saw up close, from the U.S. side of the crossing's turnstiles, the long lines of families camped out on the floor in Mexico. "The lines are a reflection of strained resources," Nielsen said in a press conference after her tour. "So we will work through in a prioritized way, based on our mission set what we can, to process as quickly, as expeditiously, professionally and with respect as we can. But we do have limited resources." Williams said when the families first began arriving, she gave Customs and Border Protection the benefit of the doubt about the delays. But on any given day, they process an average of about three families, she added, and frustration is setting in. "We’re really starting to question, until what extent is it capacity? And we haven’t gotten a clear justification for this capacity claim," Williams said. Nevertheless, Garcia and Williams said the long delays at the ports of entry could exacerbate illegal crossings border-wide, which could result in additional prosecutions and family separations. "The biggest (obstacle) is the unknown," Williams said. "Right now, your wait is 12 days, but who knows what the wait will be by the time 12 days has passed." That not only discourages recent arrivals to the border — who might opt to press their luck and try to cross illegally — but also those already in line, she added. Large numbers of asylum-seekers sitting idle at the border creates a vulnerable population that smugglers could easily exploit. Tracking those situations would be difficult. The government doesn't keep data on migrant whereabouts before they are detained, so it would be difficult to know how many of them first tried to seek asylum through the ports. Nonetheless, a "zero-tolerance" policy at the border, paired with restricted access to the ports, has left asylum seekers in a no-win situation. "They are not only separating families with children in detention, when they cross between the ports of entry. Now they are intentionally dissuading people to come legally," Garcia said. "So people will continue trying to cross, one way or another."
I've read that the DHS said 500 kids who were separated from their mothers have been united. Such "phony stories of sadness" https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/i...ave-been-reunited-may-officials-claim-n885656
So the argument is that if something is not easy, people should be allowed to break the law? Brilliant take. There was a line at the ATM and I didn't want to wait so I broke into the bank vault, no big deal.
No, the only difference is that Trump took a 0 tolerance stance. Which is a pretty big difference along with his administration thinking this could be used as a deterrent. Do you agree with Trump's executive order regarding family separation? Well, first of all, as explained, even if you illegally cross the border you can STILL seek asylum. Second of all, you yourself selectively decide who you want to believe in so you can't chastise anyone for having doubt about what the government claims. All I mentioned was that there were court cases of people saying this is exactly what happened to them. I didn't claim any expert knowledge either way. You did when you said that it wasn't happening. Actually, you are wrong. The kid goes in foster care but you are required to keep contact with the kid or some abandonment clause kicks in. Simply put, you don't lose custody for serving time...unless again if you are serving time for some kind of child abuse.
I was just correcting what you said earlier because you've said it a few times here. This is factually wrong. You can legally seek asylum while crossing the border illegally. Your ability to seek asylum is not voided if you are caught illegally crossing the border. So yeah, I was never the one claiming that, you were.
