I'm catching up on this topic. I heard in passing on television today that there was some recent court ruling that found that children are not allowed to remain with children in the detention facilities for the adults which therefore led to the situation we are in. I did a quick google search and found nothing to verify this claim or not. Would like to know more about this from anyone reading. Thanks.
Feinstein bill prevents illegals with children from being detained, creates a horrible moral hazard/incentive to traffic children across the border.
Democrats and all their stooges plus the liberal media are deceiving the public. I hope they all burn in hell for this.
Honestly, @Commodore, if you don't have me on lib-ignore here... What are you more concerned with overall: MS-13 or the iron-clad fact that Americans are so desperate to buy such a volume of illicit drugs that we will always create an MS-13 in points south? MS-13 is scary, yes, but they are a silly boogeyman in this whole conversation, IMHO.
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/06/14/us/politics/ap-us-immigration-fact-check.html I think that article sums it up nicely . From the article: "The Trump administration's "zero tolerance" policy is responsible for spurring family separations. Court rulings do not mandate that course. Zero tolerance means that when a family is caught sneaking into the U.S., the parents now are routinely referred for criminal prosecution, even if they have few or no previous offenses. That typically means detention for the adults, pending their trial. Under U.S. protocol, if parents are jailed, their children are separated from them because the children aren't charged with a crime. Until the policy was announced in April, such families were usually referred for civil deportation proceedings, not requiring separation." Again, under previous adminstrations it was rare to place parents who are first time offenders to border crossing under criminal prosecution. It would usually be a civil court they would go through which doesn't require family separation. The Trump adminstration has decided to place all offenders even first timers under criminal prosecution. Essentially this is the same as if the federal government suddenly decided to arrest and criminally prosecute all pot smokers even a 17 year old who tried a joint for the first time in their entire lives.
I see the argument that somehow illegaly crossing the border justifies everything that happens to the children. I see the argument that if you as a citizen are thrown in jail in America of course you would be separated fromyour children. Here's the issue. There is right and there is wrong. This is WRONG. 1. The government is woefully unequipped to deal with caring for hundreds of toddlers and babies. Remember this is a recent policy change instituted by Trump. 2. Who audits these facilities? Who provides medical care and ensures these incredibly vulnerable victims are not mistreated or abused? 3. These children are not allowed to be held or touched. As a father of a 1 year old. What the fk? How could these children possibly be cared for properly. Even when I drop my child off at daycare there is a certain expectation that the caregiver provides appropriate support. 4. This is not a deterrent. These people do not simply decide to migrate 1000s of miles because they just decide one day to go to America. They are coming from poverty, violence and abuse. Afew bad apples does not justify classifying an entire population as ms13. 5. If Americans were thrown in jail, I know at least systems are already in place to handle their children. But we are literally erecting tent cities in the scorching heat and making sure codes are put in place??? 6. How the fk do these children get reunited with their parents? How about babies who cannot communicate or have any papers. Their parents are deported months long before. How do parents coming from pisspoor countries tracktdown their children separated in America with the broken resources they have. Lets be real this is permanent separation for most babies and toddlers. 7. This is not summer camp. I see kids in chain link fences covered in foil. I don't understand how this can at all be spinnes In a positive light. Where is your compassion? We are causing irreparable harm for years to come in just a few weeks/months time of this disastrous policy.
Parents with children going through civil courts instead of criminal courts for a first time violation. You basically proved the liberal/Democrat point that the current practice wasn't practiced by the previous administration. Waiting through a civil process with your parents is far less traumatic than being separated by your parents while they are being criminally prosecuted. Ya major ****ing difference.
You see the arguments that totally destroy the narrative, yet you still ignore all of that and double down on ignorant emotion.....you are EXACTLY the type of person the DNC was targeting with this faux outrage. Explain why you think it is WRONG to separate illegal immigrants from their children while their deportation is processed yet you don't think it's WRONG to separate literally everyone else from their children when they are being detained for breaking the law? Nowhere in what you said did you address this despite mentioning it at the beginning.....you can't just ignore the arguments that destroy your narrative. People ask "where is your compassion?" I ask them "where is your brain?" when they ignore reality like this.
You keep on bringing this point up. Very few people are detained for extended periods of time for non violent crimes and are separated from their children. And in those cases, only one parent committed a crime thus the child has a home network of another parent, or immediate family member like a grandparent to fall back on in a home and not in a detention center full of strangers. You truly are a psychopath.
Thanks. Much of this I had heard before, but it doesn't verify what I was trying to find out. Let me try again... From what I understand, there was a time (before the courts said otherwise) when adults stopped at the border with their children were allowed to remain together in detention. Then, in response to the court ruling saying the detention centers were no place for children that ICE had to come up with a choice...either create separate facilities that met the court's expectation for foreign children OR release the adults and the kids with a "promise to appear" in immigration court later when their hearing was set. Do I have this about right?
We have plenty of violence poverty and abuse in the USA and certainly don't want to import more poverty. I try to use logic instead of emotions when deciding on good policy so I would like to hear what irreparable harm is coming from enforcing borders. Enforcing borders has been a proven deterrent.
This is a matter of criminal prosecution vs civil process. Under criminal prosecution, a parent can't be with their child, but previous adminstrations delegated first time offenders which most of these families are in a civil process so the family can stay together. Trump isn't doing that. That is the difference .I don't know what else to say? He is criminally prosecuting all of them even first time offenders.
If you have such a yearning to enforce borders, do it through civil courts and not through criminal prosecution so that these families can be deported together and while in the process of deportation are together. Fair deal? Trump can do this tonight with no need for congress under his legal purview.
Ah ok. This adds clarity. So "catch and release" is the civil process you're speaking about that allowed ICE in the past to let the potential offenders go on their own recognizance? And the change is ICE under Trump (since early May 2018) doesn't do catch and release thus combined with previous court rulings has caused the situation we face today. Would that be correct?
I mean, when we talk about first time offenders they can get a fine and up to 6 months for the criminal act of entering the US illegally....how is that ANY different from any other crime punishable by up to 6 months in jail? Any American caught breaking that kind of law would be "forcibly separated" from their children too.....would that cause "irreparable harm" to the child? I'm sure plenty of those Americans have sob stories too but no one seems to care....they only pretend to care in this instance in order to use it to score political points. As to the suckers who bought into this nonsense, their hearts are probably in the right place....they are just really, really stupid people.
No, the civil process still deported families. The criminal process has an intent to criminally prosecute with even wasting tax payer money in conviction and imprisonment within the US prison system.
