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Cristian Javier's Invisiball

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Joe Joe, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    The Astros have 7 SPs now.

    Checks notes...Astros are 1 win away from winning the World Series with the 7 starters having 79.1 Innings of 3.17 ERA in the postseason and 25 innings of 0.72 ERA ball among the guys mentioned as trade bait.

    The ability to forecast future performance is incredibly murky, and even more so when talking about pitching. While I would agree trading a pitcher for a hitter would make the Astros better with good pitching health and continued performance, I think the consequences of an injury to a pitcher plus not knowing how well pitchers will pitch a year from now are much negative than the positive gains.
     
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  2. BlindHog

    BlindHog Member

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    I am not counting on JV returning, If he is willing to commit to a mutually amicable deal in the first few days after the series great. You begin the season with an ace (JV is a top 5 pitcher). Otherwise you have two #1's (Framber and Javier are top 30 or better pitchers). Two #2's, (Garcia and Urquidy are top 60 or better pitchers). For a fifth or sixth man you add a #3 (McCullers is a top 90 pitcher) or a rookie (Brown is an eventual #3 or better). Brown would be easier to hold on to than McCullers as he has options and no injury history, McCullers has earned some loyalty and deserves consideration. A tough choice between McCullers and Brown will have to be made if JV (a high risk for age related injury or ineffectiveness) comes back.
     
  3. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    McCullers is untradeable.

    Framber and Javier are simply the key to continued success.

    Brown could be special but has not progressed to untradeable yet.

    Garcia and Urquidy are the options. The team can afford to trade them and they have value

    But only if JV returns
     
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  4. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    I just want to put this out there because people don't talk about it. Javier is the only pitcher in major league history that across 6 consecutive starts did not give up more than 2 hits and no runs. That's 34 innings of scoreless pitching.

    He did give up a run during the streak. A homerun in one 1.1 innings of relief during the mariner series.
     
    #104 rockbox, Nov 19, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
  5. BlindHog

    BlindHog Member

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    I will be surprised if he is not the teams #1 pitcher by the end of this season. He will be a legitimate Ace and if I had to choose between signing JV for a couple of years or extending Javier I would have to go with Javier.
     
  6. cardpire

    cardpire Member

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    a few years from now once hunter brown establishes himself, the 2022 staff (2022-2025 if JV gets extended?) isn't even going to make sense that it was possible, looking back. realistic chance that it could end up going down as the best staff of all time talent-wise.
     
  7. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    Maybe one of the best. The 90s Braves rotation was pretty damn sick though.
     
  8. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    54 Indians, 98 Braves, 66 Dodgers, 71 Orioles come to mind.
     
  9. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    Also, IIRC the Phillies had Halladay, Cliff Lee, Hamels, Oswalt and somebody about 10 years ago
     
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I can think of rotations arguably better than the Astros, but when you include the bullpen and depth, this is the best pitching staff I have ever seen and that’s going back 40 years.
     
  11. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    Oh I agree, but that's not what we were talking about. ;)

    Fun Fact: Stros used 22 pitchers this season and the only ones who had an ERA over 4 were Ronel Blanco and Pedro Baez, and they pitched 8.2 innings combined.
     
  12. Major

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    McCullers is a better pitcher than either Garcia or Urquidy as of now. If they end up with 7 SPs, I suspect they go with a 6 man rotation with Brown in the bullpen and the first guy when someone inevitably is injured or just sucks.
     
  13. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    Do we need to ask MLB how they're going to monkey with the baseballs for next year, so the Stros can decide what pitchers to keep: GB vs FB ;)
     
    Bregatron, JeeberD, Qan and 2 others like this.
  14. Marshall Bryant

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    You can ask, but they'll LIE.
     
  15. Marshall Bryant

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    I Agree. McCullers is a pitcher version of Meyers except with a longer contract. Injury and recovery times have hurt their trade value. Brown is untradable in respect to his perceived value by others. But if he were part of an Ohtani/Trout Trade, then no.

    Interesting Trade Simulator deal.

    Astros get:
    Suarez 12.8
    Trout 14
    26.8

    Angels get:
    Brown 28.3
    28.3

    Astros lose this trade.

    note - This is based entirely on EXCESS value. If the best player in baseball is earning exactly what he's worth, his excess value is 0.0.
     
    #115 Marshall Bryant, Nov 20, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2022
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  16. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    When Trout is healthy, he's the best non pitcher in the MLB. When he's not, he's about 200 million bucks of dead weight. I don't feel bad for the angels but I feel bad for him. Seems like a great guy and but no playoffs will hurt his legacy.
     
  17. Marshall Bryant

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    The thing I do like about him (Trout) is that when he is playing, his production rate is consistently good. There aren't long stretches of poor play, just stretches he doesn't play. If there is depth, his absence is mitigated.
     
  18. Yordan The Great

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    Love Javier to death, but he's had only 4 starts in 44 career starts go past the 6th inning.

    Hard to call a pitcher who cannot give you extended innings your #1 ace.

    Framber will be our undisputed #1 if JV leaves us.
     
  19. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Cristian Javier and Framber are like the two parts of the black and white cookie. Both are great and no reason to decide between the two parts. Look to the cookie!

    CNdLbvIUwAASIh1.png
     
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  20. Yordan The Great

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    Halladay and Lee, that was an unbelievable 1-2 punch. Lee at the height of his career was fun to watch. Hamels was peaking right at that time.

    I had to go look it up, 2011

    Vance Worley was the 5th starter, had 2017 Brad Peacock type season, 11-3 3.01 era in 21 starts.
     
    #120 Yordan The Great, Nov 20, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2022

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