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Cristian Javier's Invisiball

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Joe Joe, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    Houston has traded away 30+ prospects over the last 5-6 years. Here is the list of guys who have put up more than 2 fWAR in the majors during that time (war since 2015):

    Enrique Hernandez 7.4
    Ramon Laureano 6.8
    Domingo Santana 4.9
    Teoscar Hernandez 2.7
    JD Davis 2.5
    Brett Phillips 2.0
    Mike Foltynewicz 7.6
    Joe Musgrove 7.1
    Vince Velasquez 6.4
    Josh Hader 6.4
    Trent Thornton 2.0

    I didn’t include Martinez, Villar, Grossman, DeShields, Stassi, Lyles, or Straily because they either weren’t acquired via trade or they weren’t considered prospects at the time they were traded.

    There are no former Astros prospects among the current Fangraphs Top 100.
     
  2. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Laureano is like Marisnick, except he's got an uncanny accurate, strong arm at times, can't run routes, and is a pretty good hitter.
     
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  3. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    Laureano and Hader are the only star caliber players they traded away. There’s quite a few fringe regulars (Davis, Teoscar, Phillips, Santana, Musgrove, Velasquez, Thornton). Folty could have been a stud. There’s still a lot of guys in other teams’ systems who are not ranked highly but have significant ceilings (Beer, Bukauskas, Martin, Cameron, Franklin Perez, Celestino, Alcala, etc etc etc). It’s pretty amazing how much talent Luhnow developed during his tenure.
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Javier has found a little too much of the plate a few times. He has been largely unhittable outside of homers.
     
  5. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Contributing Member
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    Watching our pitching staff is a bit different to me these days.

    Last year, with Verlander and Cole starting 40% of games and the Osuna, Pressley, Rondon, bullpen, it felt like we were all smoke, all the time.

    This year, with Greinke, Framber, and Javier, it's a lot more craft and guile.

    Both are fun to watch.
     
  6. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I don't mind this early in games when his fastball is 94 with a ton of "rise" as it will lead to whiffs, pop ups, fly balls, and an occasional homer. When his fastball is 91mph, it doesn't have the same movement, and he has to rely on changing his pitches and hitting location better. I'm hoping as the season goes on, he gets more endurance such that his fastball is still dominant in the 6th.
     
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  7. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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    Gotta say, the most fun watching any Astro pitch for me, has to be Cy Young Keuchel. Working the bottom of the zone, dotting corner to corner. He was magnificent and deserved a no hitter while here.
     
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  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I like when Greinke said that his goal is to be throwing fastballs sub 80 for strikes.
     
  9. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    Would have been sweet if James had panned out as a starter. James and Verlander in with Greinke, Javier, and Valdez is an ideal mix of pitching styles.
     
  10. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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  11. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    [Premium Thread Bump]
    Javier's deception (from his low arm slot) and lack of vertical drop on his fastball (perceived as rise by the hitter) are what make him so unhittable. The Astros appear to place a huge emphasis on movement and spin, ahead of traditional metrics like simple velocity. Take a look at this article from 3 years ago. You'll see many players on the movement leaderboard who were not in the Astros farm system and the Astros went out and picked them up (Pressly, Neris, Maton, Biagini, Osuna, Morton). It looks like pitch movement is an area where the Astros really focus on when prioritizing pickups and in development. Javier's no-drop FB would be a tough matchup especially the day after facing Framber's huge drop offerings. They are polar opposite pitchers in terms of movement.

    Very interesting article below. Javier would be in the top 5 of the four-seam fastball rise leaderboard if he were ranked in this article (from 2019).
    https://www.mlb.com/news/pitch-movement-leaderboard-new-at-baseball-savant
     
    #71 El_Conquistador, Jul 2, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  12. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    And it's usually a secondary pitch that he fails to locate that he gets burned on
     
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  13. TracywtFacy

    TracywtFacy Member

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    Javier literally defying the laws of gravity and physics
     
  14. desihooper

    desihooper Contributing Member
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    This post stands out especially considering his tough outing in G4 of the '21 Series :oops:
     
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  15. HeyBudLetsParty

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    Can’t wait to tell my grandkids about this pitcher we had that could throw an invisible baseball
     
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  16. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    Didn't Randy Johnson also have a "rising" FB?
     
  17. Marshall Bryant

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    I believe he threw side arm so it was a different type of rising fastball. The typical rising fastball is thrown overhand and really doesn't rise except in relation to the expected downward arc.
     
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  18. BlindHog

    BlindHog Member

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    Sadly my grand kid don't give a flyin at the moon about baseball, invisible or otherwise.
     
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  19. Marshall Bryant

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    LOL! If it isn't an APP, it doesn't exist.
     
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  20. PhiSlammaJamma

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    If it bleeds, it can be killed.
     
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