Why does anyone want Odom? Here are my reasons why getting Odom is crazy. 1) Odom came off his worst year ever 2) Shooting at just 40% from the field (Rockets need better shooters not worse) 3) A pathetic *19%* from 3pt line in 2001 4) A poor 65% from the charity stripe 5) 3.3 turnovers a game 6) Possible problems with drugs and attitude Many, many of the trade rumors on this BBS involve the Rocks aquiring Odom - are we nuts??? To even consider him you have to 'scratch out' the 2001 season and use previous seasons as a measure of skill- even then he's not that great. Even compare Odom career stats to Walt Williams Williams FG 42.6% Odom FG 44.5% Williams RPG 4.0 Odom RPG 7.5 Williams 3pt 37.9% Odom 3pt 30.9% Williams TO 2.0 Odom TO 3.4 Williams Ast 4.0 Odom Ast 4.9 And 'if healthy' Rice is better than Williams. Also the per 48 minutes stats are even closer. I say just draft a SF at #15 or trade KT and #15 to move up and get a SF. Lots of good SF in this draft. Just my 2cents.
The only problem that I have with trading for odom is that I cannot think of a single pro basketball/baseball/football player that has been successful after a drug problem that reaches the media. I will also state the other side. This guy has only had mar1juana cases his career. Pot will not stop true talent. Out of all the potheads that I know, not one of them has ruined a career over it. Ultimately, I think that Lamar's risks have nothing to do with his basketball life. The man has a tremendous upside and I think that if he would like to play for us, we should go after him within reason. The number one pick is not equal to a single semi-risky young SF. However, we should be calculated this offseason, but not affraid to take a risk. My opinion is that we should trade for odom if the deal does not involve the Rockets giving up anything from it's core. .02$
randy moss... but that's beside the point, odom's numbers do look unappetising don't they... he may have game, but he is far from being a polished player, nor has he shown the willingness to work on his flaws...
Why not go for someone who actually has very nice numbers AND is not a problem. Go for Rashard Lewis. Compare 2001 stats LOdom FG 40.0% 3ptr 19.0% FT 65.6% RB 6.1 Ast 5.9 St 0.8 TO 3.3 Lewis FG 46.8% 3ptr 38.9% FT 81.0% RB 7.0 Ast 1.7 St 1.5 TO 1.7 Clearly Lewis wins in every category except assists. But the the assist category in this case is very misleading - - - Clips have no point guard and Sonics have Gary Payton. Clips have the ball in Odoms hands for much of the game - hence the extra turnovers. Lewis is a better fit as he is used to having a great PG and much better stats. Plus he is a FA.
To be fair to Odom, he was injured most of last year, so that could account for the drop in his numbers. Odom is obviously a unique player and causes matchup problems and offers his team great flexibility. My concerns about Odom are not related to his substance abuse suspensions. Adding Odom would strengthen any team. The big question on acquiring Odom is what is the cost? If you can get him for very little, then it's a no-brainer, you do it. But, if you have to give up something substantial, then I think that you have to give it some thought. Here's the reason that I'm not that high on acquiring Odom. - Odom is a point forward. He needs the ball in his hands to be at his best. He likes to create for others first and then if there is nothing there, he'll look for his own opportunities. When he's healthy, he's very good at doing this. The thing I'd be worried about is that both Francis and Mobley also need the ball in their hands to be successful. Our guards (including Moochie) dominate the ball, we've seen this for the last two years. I'm not sure how adding an additional guy that needs the ball is going to work out. I don't know if we could get all three of those guys to stop dominating the ball, but even if we could, I'm not sure that any of the three would be as successful. Maybe adding a third ball handler forces our guards to share the ball more, but there's still got to be a question on whether those guys could co-exist in the same lineup. - Odom has wonderful all around skills, but does he really fill our biggest needs? To me, our biggest needs are low post scoring, better defense (especially interior defense) and shot blocking. Odom brings alot of things to the table, but he's not really a low post scorer and he's not a good defender. He does block shots well for a SF. - My biggest concern on acquiring Odom is really what to do about his contract. There's too much uncertainty about Odom right now to offer him a big money long term deal. But, if you don't extend his contract, then you run the risk of him having a good year and becoming an unrestricted free agent. So, the dilema is, do you risk giving him a big extention and hoping that he can stay healthy and get his act together or do you not extend him and risk letting him become a FA? Odds are that he won't sign a mid-level extention right now, it wouldn't be in his best interest. If he can't get a big money deal immediately, it's much more advantageous for him to play well next year and drive up his asking price. This is pretty much the same situation that is facing the Clippers right now and is the primary reason that they are considering trading him. Sterling knows that he's going to have to pay up to keep his young talent. They just have too many questions about Odom to tie up that kind of money in him long term. So, now they have to look at trading him rather than risk losing him to free agency. I'm not sure that I want to be put in that situation. If we could minimize the risk by getting Odom without giving up too much, then you do it. He's got too much upside. On the other hand, if I have to give up something substantial, then the risk is too great for me.
aelliott I'm afraid of Odom for the character issues more than play style. I think that adding a player with a pass first mentality would be excelent for the Rockets. I think we all see the need for a player who passes. The character thing is more of a concern to me and its not the pot. Odom has let his team down twice by thinking of Lamar first to heck with anyone else. Our young team needs a passer but I don't think we need a bad influnce. All that being said to quote aelliott "If we could minimize the risk by getting Odom without giving up too much, then you do it. He's got too much upside. On the other hand, if I have to give up something substantial, then the risk is too great for me." I like your conclusion.
aelliott, Well conceived post and I agree with many of your comments. 8000 trade rumors on this BBS and 7500 involve Lamar Odom. There is a thread that suggests 'Steve Francis and #15 for Odom', another 'MoT, Griff and #1 pick for Odom', and another 'Cat, Rice and #38 for Odom' etc... These are insane. Reasonable would be mroe like #15 + KT for Odom - if that. My thought is that he is not nearly good enough to morgage any team over and in fact with injury + problems + influence issues his stock is going down. What do you think about finding a way to get Rashard Lewis instead? Isn't he a better fit?
<i>I'm afraid of Odom for the character issues more than play style. I think that adding a player with a pass first mentality would be excelent for the Rockets. I think we all see the need for a player who passes. </i> okierock, I agree that a pass first mentality would be a welcome addition, it's just that Odom has had the offense run through him at Rhode Island and with the Clips. He needs to have the ball in his hands and be the decision maker. Francis and Mobley both need/want the ball in their hands and to be decision makers. I'm not sure that we could have 3 guys in that role and I'm not sure if any of the three would be as effective if they weren't in that role.
Steve and Cat run Iso. Iso is not an offense we all saw how painfull watching Iso was last year. Iso is a piece of an offense that you use when it benefits you. If we had a leader to "run" the offense, (assuming we have an offense other than Iso) then we could attempt to get an easy bucket by passing early in the shot clock before we resort to Iso whick is our strength currently. Pass first Iso last. Not the other way around which is what Steve and Cat do. Odom while being a good passer is not a leader IMHO.
Seems to me that if you want a Point/Forward (and trouble) then Odom might be a fit, you want a more pure SF then Lewis is the way, or just draft one if available. Rocks dont need another ball handler, thats for sure. Nachbar seems to be a great fit if he's still around at 15. This draft will be a blast to watch. Can't wait.
I'm thinking more of Jeffries or Woods. We might have to move to 12 (trade with the clipps) to get him, but I think either is better than anything we have at 3 spot. If he's there at 12, the Rockets can hop on the phone, get la to pick him and then trade kt and the 15th for him. That would be gravy.
Now we have Francis and Cat making noise over Odom - and they want to trade our #1 pick for him . . . This is distressing. Please tell me that Cat and Francis aren't the Rocks GM's. Alarms should be goin off.
Lamar Odom is bad chemistry waiting to happen. I can't imagine our team chemistry being any worse than it is now. Add Odom, and you have yourself a Molotov Cocktail.
Odom or Lewis that is the question. Both can do a little of everything yet neither is a great defender. These player a basically identical with two exception. 1- Odom is the better ballhandler and can bring the ball up off his own rebound. The Clippers used Odom the way they did because they had no other viable option. Lewis disappered in the playoffs. 2-Odom gives Garnett fits offensively and defensively. while not a great defender he takes it up a notch against good smalls. No real ballplayer wants anyone to better him. Garnett abuses Lewis so much seattle had to constantly had to double team even out on the floor. Those of you who actually play the game know that you play better with better players and you don't need the ball to do it, you just have to be able to knock down open shots. Odom will create open shots, you can't double three good player like you can zone two, somebody's open IF you MOVE THE BALL. The point is - I'm not really an Odom fan, I know Odom's game, Ming has too many questions. number one on my list is availability. He misses training camp his first year and it's january before he learns the offense or his teammates learn his game and he theirs. We could still get a big at 15. My trade- #1,15 and Kenny Thomas in sign and trade for Odom, 8 and 12. Since you now have two top 13 picks give the 12 to (Vancover)Memphis for the Francis deal and select the best big available at 8, either Bochart or Wilcox, whichever the Knicks screw up on. Whaddayathink?
Whad- No way. We are going foreign this year. Not only at #1 but at #15 also. There are so many good small forwards in the draft this year that teams don't need to go after Odom.
I'd take Lewis over Odom if it was my team. I think Lewis has a better game off-the-ball and we all know how our guards like to dribble, get them someone who likes to move with out the ball and can get open, then finish. Another player wanting to controll the ball isn't going to help in my opinion.
Francis ~= Nash Cat ~= Finley Odom ~= Nowitski Cato <> La Frentz Are we the Mavericks Lite? PS for Rashard lovers (myself included)...Lewis' new contract will make him a BYC player and almost impossible to trade for. (A tip of the hat to aelliott & hp).
Odom or Lewis that is the question. Both can do a little of everything yet neither is a great defender. These player a basically identical with two exception. 1- Odom is the better ballhandler and can bring the ball up off his own rebound. The Clippers used Odom the way they did because they had no other viable option. Lewis disappered in the playoffs. 2-Odom gives Garnett fits offensively and defensively. while not a great defender he takes it up a notch against good smalls. No real ballplayer wants anyone to better him. Garnett abuses Lewis so much seattle had to constantly had to double team even out on the floor. Those of you who actually play the game know that you play better with better players and you don't need the ball to do it, you just have to be able to knock down open shots. Odom will create open shots, you can't double three good player like you can zone two, somebody's open IF you MOVE THE BALL. The point is - I'm not really an Odom fan, I know Odom's game, Ming has too many questions. number one on my list is availability. He misses training camp his first year and it's january before he learns the offense or his teammates learn his game and he theirs. We could still get a big at 15. My trade- #1,15 and Kenny Thomas in sign and trade for Odom, 8 and 12. Since you now have two top 13 picks give the 12 to (Vancover)Memphis for the Francis deal and select the best big available at 8, either Bochart or Wilcox, whichever the Knicks screw up on. Whaddayathink?
Yes Ming does come with his questions, but what is it about Odom that makes him worth the #1 pick? And until I see it, I don't believe Francis, Mobley, and Odom can play on the same team..........there's only one basketball.
