Have you checked out what universe we are living in? Violence is THE intrinsic behavior. It is instinctual right down to protozoa. Hell even plants with no consciousness have chemical warfare battles over turf. I've seen two year olds whacking each other in the head over a toy....in a room full of toys. We are still just animals, and not so highly evolved that the vestigial reptillian capacity for bloodlust doesn't direct our psyche. Religion or no religion, our evolutionary imperative is to dominate or dieout.
In the interest of brevity, much less violence and death. Belief in the supernatural, and it's associated infallibility, is a fantastic method for breeding hatred and contempt.
Violence and death is borne out of human selfishness, most religions attempt to put that selfishness in 'check', (i.e. the "love your neighbor", "wish for your brother what you wish for yourself" commandments). Of course, in typical display of selfishness, human beings still find ways to manipulate religion to their own selfish desires and worldly gains. I wouldn't blame religion for that, I blame man...
disagree. creation/reproduction is on equal footing. religion is just one of the manners in which we try to find balance between the two.
Here is my litmus test that that sets the bar for if a set of beliefs is destructive. Do your beliefs allow you to sing the "I'm better than you" song. "I'm one of gods chosen ones" "God loves me more" “I have the real message and you are deluded" This type of thing. This leads to belief that what ever you do is right because you are acting for God, and what could be more right than that, and others are not favored by God so they are less than human and don't count as much as God's "chosen" people.
Understood, and that was not my argument. It seems bogus to imply that all violence/bogotry is merely the result of human nature. Human nature is also substanially linked to the activities and beliefs involved for that particular person. Believing in a god, particularly a "one, true god", will result in contempt (or at a minimum, a feeling of pity) for those who don't believe. That's not the result of human nature, that's the result of one's belief. And belief is not a human nature. As a side note, since the question is with regard to religion - the act of belief is a mere tangent. Religion and belief are not the same. From the perspective of religion, there is little doubt (and you'd have a hard time proving otherwise) that it has inspired a disproportionate amount of violence.
I would ask you to reconsider your reasoning- What are the results of 'human nature'- What has been the natural result of human behavior in any relationship? if disagreement, competition, conflict and selfishness have not been merely human nature then man could have solved all of his own problems by himself. If you want to know what man's true human nature is all you have to do is take away all restraints- laws, traffic laws, prisons, courts, police, etc. There is no quicker way to understand man's deepest nature than to remove restraint. Contempt does not come from religion, contempt comes from pride and selfishness. What we believe is determined by our nature - If this was not true then there would be no selfish people involved in religion because most teach self denial and generosity. Religion is the proof that the human nature is more powerful than religious teaching. Your inner nature determines what you believe and what you believe determines your motivations, your motivations determine your choices and your choices on earth will determine your eternity. At least think about it.
They are linked. Religion fuels pride and selfishness, and as such fuels violence and hatred. One might argue that religion "creates" it's own pride and selfishness.
A lot of stuff to ruminate over here and if not for lousy work I could spend the next 12 hours responding to the stuff in this thread. Great and thoughtful posts here but wanted to respond to this one. I understand what you're saying but that raises some interesting theological questions regarding why follow any particular faith, particularly monotheistic faiths. The First Commandment is "Thou shalt have no other god but me." Right there that sets apart belief in anything else and if you believe that there is one true god then everyone else who believes otherwise isn't a follower and therefore farther apart from God than you are. To follow monotheistic religions there does seem to be a standard in regard to that following it makes you better since it brings you closer to God. For instance does a Christian consider himself better than a Hindu because the Hindu doesn't believe in the one Biblical God? If not then what matters if you're a Christian or Hindu in the eyes of God?
I believe most wars, termination camps etc. that ppl think are being fought for religious reasons are actually fought because of greed, power, and politics. Actual fights over religion are rare. Historically speaking, Christianity has had problems with having a Christian republic and churches that ruled over men, whereas Muslims want to go back to the time of Muslim rule, those were the best of times in Islam. However, no Christian wants to go back to the time of Church rule, not even fundamentalist monks, their past haunts them.
i'm sorry this has been your experience. i believe in what I believe to be the one, true God. because i believe what I believe about Him...about his love and compassion and his desire for me to follow him in that same vein, i do not have contempt for those who do not believe in Him. i'm no better than they are. your right...faith has certainly been hijacked in the context of religion to horrible ends.
Christian theology would tell you the believer is not at all a better person. it would tell you we're all broken and in need of a savior.
Again it is our evolutionary imperatives that direct our actions through our ego. We must preserve our life and procreate. To insure that we do that we must have more than we need, and prove to prospective mates our skill as a provider. You might even reduce the competition of rivals by taking their stuff too. To this day rich dudes can procreate with desirable females even if they themselves have physical shortcomings. I would guess civilized behaviour has evolved because man found some cooperation a survival technique, against weather, or other creatures or other groups of humans. In general people are motivated by 1. Self preservation 2. procreation 3.ego all manifested in the modern concept of money (collateralized power) Selflessness (liberalism) is counter to the natural laws which is one reason it is so hard to promote. (good try though Jesus) I think it is a higher level in the evolution of mankind but it may not ultimately be successfull as a human trait.
