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Crane-- "Astros Name will not Change"

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by juicystream, Jan 23, 2012.

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  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    As far as the name 'Greens' honestly Roxran that is about the worst name that I have heard for a Houston team.
     
  2. Major

    Major Member

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    :confused: But it wasn't up to Drayton to decide. The buyer had to accept the AL or Selig had to back down. Drayton had no say in the process and no ability to influence the process, except maybe by lowering his asking price if the buyer would accept the AL.
     
  3. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    The only name I think I could get behind if they decided to change it is Oilers.

    Watch out, that must mean you're miserable! And if that is about the worst name, I ask you to do us all a favor and not reveal what is for sure the worst name.
     
  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    I will be very miserable if they change the Astros name.
     
  5. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    This! Exactly. Timing was a huge issue. Crane sold it out for cash. Understandable, but as a fan of an NL franchise I'm not exactly thrilled with it...which created the entire context to the response he got regarding the name change. Just really bad timing to be throwing that kind of crap out.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    huh? nook, you're missing the point entirely. MLB couldn't MAKE any Astros owner change. It had an NL charter that took agreement from the owner to modify. It was up to the new owner to make the decision because Drayton was no longer going to be the decision maker. This ended up costing Drayton money, as he ended up coming off his price some and got some additional contribution from other owners to give Crane his $70 million discount as compensation for the move.

    So Crane agreed to it and was compensated...the fanbase on the other hand.....
     
  7. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    They absolutely could have and would have asked any potential buyer....but Crane's baggage gave them the smokescreen to avoid approval until they worked out all the details with the players union on the change.

    Again, if Crane says, "no..I'm not accepting this...my offer is for THIS franchise with THIS NL charter", you will never convince me that MLB tells him to take a hike at that point. They're not walking away from that kind of money and leaving another floundering ownership situation. They're moving on to the next franchise to attempt the move. This was a perfect storm for Astros fans.
     
  8. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    I don't disagree; the Astros were caught in the middle of someone else's agenda. But I think the flipside to this is Crane wasn't walking away, either. This was his last chance to own a MLB team.

    And I can't get past the fact the owners paid him $35MM; that still speaks a lot to me about how invested they were in this move. I don't know why - perhaps the lure of everyday interleague play was considered a financial boon; perhaps it was tied to the playoff expansion, which offered more money... whatever the reason, the owners had bought into this idea fully.

    I don't think any Astro owner stood a chance. Franchise values are not decreasing. They'd love the $610 figure - but Drayton was going to get a gigantic ROI even if he sold the team at fair market value and they all knew that.
     
  9. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    They split up the $35 million among 30 franchises...that's a rounding error for most of them. And for a few of them, it meant they wouldn't have to worry about it being THEIR franchise that's asked to move.

    Franchise values are absolutely increasing...but Crane's offer blew everyone away, Ric. It exceed estimates by about $200 million. And there was no one waiting in the wings to offer anything close. Drayton's ROI isn't/wasn't the concern of the owners...just how the price itself affected the value of their franchises.

    Again...all he had to say is, "no." They bought him out of that position. He used the issue to his benefit to create a lower sales price. I'm still waiting for my compensation. :)
     
  10. weslinder

    weslinder Contributing Member

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    The Oilers doesn't feel like a baseball name. I think you need to wear a helmet to go by the name Oilers. The only way I want another Houston Oilers team is if we can steal the NHL franchise from Edmonton.
     
  11. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    We were so close!!!
     
  12. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    I don't buy his "I have no choice" excuse for one second. This is just Crane trying to spin his way out of something he did willingly. It tells me that he did not give one damn about the feelings of Astros baseball fans in Houston. And that's his perrogative. But don't expect longtime fans to buy his product after he's raised his hind leg on 50 years of Houston baseball history.

    I side with Max here. Crane was the one offering serious $$$ for this shipwreck of a baseball organization. Nobody else was even close to their offer and if Crane had walked away then MLB would have in essence screwed themselves. If MLB was indeed stupid enough to try to strong arm him on this AL BS, he should have got up from the table and walked away. You NEVER go into any negotiation unless you are willing to walk away if you can't stomach the terms of the deal. And this AL move rendered this deal null and void.

    But Crane didn't give one damn about any of this because he figured that while the Astrosheep will bleat a little at first, a little PR spinning (like what he gave you), some price cuts and cheap beer will soon have them drinking the koolaid in no time. Well good luck with all that. I certainly hope you and the rest enjoy your new Houston version of the KC Royals because the next 10 years are going go by very slowly.
     
  13. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    I sense you and Max (others, of course) are discounting, if not outright dismissing how much Crane stood to lose here. He could have said "no," sure. But "no" means he has to be ready to walk away from ever owning a MLB team. That's a tremendous risk. Compare that to the owners' risk, which is minimal. Sure, Crane's offer increases the value of their franchises... but the next sucker to come along and buy a team is going to do that anyway - these sale prices, with or without Crane, are NOT showing any signs of losing any steam.

    We don't know he did it willingly; if fact, there's enough evidence ot suggest he didn't. Hw many months passed between agreement and approval? Do you think his 10-year EEOC cases were holding things up? He likely repeatedly said no. The protracted approval process, along with eventual financial compensation, indicates there was an ongoing reluctance/negotiation.

    Says the guy who hasn't invested years and years and years of his life into this transaction; yeah, I would imagine it was an easy call for you to make.

    This sounds almost exactly the same line you fed us after the Texans hired that good for nothing Mr. Fix-it.

    The move to the AL is completely independent of anything happening within the organization to improve the baseball product, btw. It's a total disconnect to suggest this decision dooms them to 10 years of mediocrity.
     
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    I disagree with virtually everything you've said about this transaction except this. I do think Crane's hires so far are reason for optimism about the direction of the franchise on the field.

    With regard to the rest...Crane stood his ground until someone waved $70 million in his face as a reduction off the purchase price. Once that happened, all notions of sticking with the NL charter were gone...particularly for a group sooo leveraged to make this deal happen. As I said earlier, I understand that from a business perspective..but as a fan who doesn't get to share in the $70 million, it sucks. It just does.
     
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    This can't be serious, right? Just a way to drum up interest and fervor.

    DD
     
  16. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    There's risk yes but in this instance there was no "next sucker" waiting in the wings here. Had MLB pissed off Crane, then MLB & the Astros would have been stuck with McClain which would have given MLB another franchise in bad straits to go along with the Dodgers. And if that's what Selig and the other owners wanted instead of a guy who offered real $$$ for this team, then I say give it to them.

    What evidence? His whining to you that "my hands were tied by the big bullies at MLB"? Please! The fact is that Crane offered more money than anyone for the Astros and unless I misread the tenets of capitalism, money still talks and all the rest - including the smokescreen about 10-year old EEOC cases was simply BS.

    As I see it the bottom line here is that Selig and MLB intended to F Houston and Houston baseball fans from the start and it was Crane who went along with it. And that is something he can't weasel out by reducing the a few ticket prices and selling cheap beer can excuse what he did. And to add insult to injury, he now expects those same fans he & MLB disrespected to pony up money for an inferior product that's about to piss away 50 years of tradition and move to the AL West where it stands at best a miniscule chance of success. The point I wish to stress here is that if I had wanted to watch AL baseball, I would be a Texas Rangers fan. But I was born in Houston and for over 50 years now, I have been an Astros and NL baseball fan and this is absolutely the final straw. Crane and MLB don't want fan support - they want brainless junkies who pay any price for what ever dope they chose to market.

    Years of his life? Jeez, you are beginning to sound like all of the Cowboy apologists up here who swallow and parrot every lame excuse Jerry Jones has fed them to cover his butt over the past 16 years. Hey, if you want to buy his story, cool. But don't expect others to be so trusting - especially after the insulting way this entire episode has been forced down our throats.

    No where in this mess is even an implicit indication that the move to the AL will be beneficial to the Astros in the least. In fact, if you can find one, I'd love to hear it. They will be moving to a division that will be dominated by Texas & Anaheim - two teams with excellent farm systems and deep pockets and loaded team rosters. Last time I looked that ain't the Astros.

    Under Crane, the Astros won't spend money to compete - instead, they will be building from within adopting the strategy of the Mariners, Royals and A's. Now just to which group do you believe the Astros will belong in 3 years? 5 years? 10 years? Know this: the Texas Rangers have spent the better part of the past 2 decades trying to get it right and it's only after Nolan Ryan (remember him?) and Jon Daniels took control did this franchise pull its head out of its behind and get things right. Now given all that's gone down, what gives you hope that the Astros won't become just another also ran like the three teams mentioned above?
     
  17. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Eh, there was potentially another buyer. The Friedman group would have probably stepped in and offered less money to buy the team. Let's also remember that while the Astros got sold, Drayton never put them openly up for sale. We don't know that another group of investors couldn't have come together, and quite frankly MLB would not have feared the possibility that NO ONE would want to buy them.
     
  18. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    You can certainly paint this as him selling out, and really – IT is... but I don’t begrudge the guy. It seems pretty clear, if he wanted to own the Astros, this was his only option. The Astros were vulnerable and thus going to move. If you’re Jim Crane, would you rather you move them, or someone else?

    You mentioned the perfect storm, and I agree – bad timing. He got caught up in someone else’s agenda. But I won’t hold it against him.
     
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    I'm assuming Friedman would have reasserted the same offer that was previously rejected. My understanding is it was nowhere near what Crane's was.

    Drayton did put the team up for sale in November of 2010. He hired an investment firm to manage the process for him. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/19/drayton-mclane-selling-astros_n_786232.html

    the sale, itself, wasn't announced until May of 2011:

    http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/...13&content_id=19010318&vkey=news_hou&c_id=hou
     
  20. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    I'll get over it...but it set the entire context for the press conference the other day where he threw out the name change crap. That was the reason why this whole discussion came up in the first place...relevant to that event that's the subject of this thread.
     
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