Yeah, you pretty much proved my point. No one cares about 2005-2008. from that point on people were sick of Bush's **** and the Iraq War. It culminated in the downward spiral towards the end.
Um, except... that wasn't your point. You said since the downward spiral was evident ever since his 2nd term, which began in 2005. Everything had been going well until recently. If it was so obvious to you, I assume your 401k isn't down 40% like everyone else.
exactly, it's obvious to everyone right now. just like it's obvious everyone in major league baseball in the late 90's was on steroids. but whether because we chose to ignore the signs or didn't know where to look, it was only obvious in foresight to a few people. hedge funds wouldn't be closing, the market wouldn't have gone to 14000 and now down to 7000, and companies wouldn't be going bankrupt everywhere if it was just so obvious. i did find it ridiculous for stewart to bring out that "there's a market for cocaine and hookers" line when cramer said there's a market for shows like "Fast Money" (i know there is because i watch it). why does stewart do a comedy news show and get viewers? because there's a market for it. to ask whether it should be about people with 401k's or traders on wall street, what kind of question is that? there shouldn't be shows for wall street traders? who is going to be the most interested in these shows? the general public or active traders? is cnbc supposed to be a public education show or a network trying to get ratings. does the daily show have to turn into CNN News now?
No argument there. But Enron was built on lies. Stanford Financial was built on lies. Madoff Investment Securities was built on lies. They had to come down hard eventually... and they did. And so it also happened to the market. But to say that it has been obvious for years and everyone should have known is stupid.
I also think it's human nature, but the difference is that we're lulled into thinking capitalism is the most efficient and least worst moral allocation of resources when in fact the "markets" and the "masses" are pretty much interchangable. Everyone likes to think of himself as above the sheeple. I guess all it takes is a less derogatory word to ignore our part in the system. I'm not calling for the end of capitalism, but some form of tangible and egalitarian punishment has to be dealt in order to make people question their shadier motives. As long as there's a threshold where normal rules doesn't apply, we're going to repeat this no matter the financial system. Easier said than done, but it's maddening.
Agree with Invisible Fan. I've found myself in a few similar situations, also as an employee in the gears of capitalism, what could be described (ridiculously simplistically) as one of the "little Eichmanns" by that Churchill crackpot a few years ago. I just walked a few blocks to the ATM, loaded up on cash, and returned home, unscathed. Many people saw me perform this activity, saw me pocket a few hundred bucks, but no matter. My fundamental view of human nature is thus: I returned home unhurt because there is a decent, though flawed, system of police and prisons, the threat of which protects me in those actions. This threat of punishment for misdeeds acts in harmony with whatever perceived notions of morality are inherent/learned in our society. Without that threat of punishment, I'm not so sure the rest doesn't crumble as well. I don't believe market theory somehow absolves us of our primal impulses to take that which we want. Unfettered capitalism leads to the same endgame, Randian nutjobs (Greenspan, et. al.) be darned. We need a responsive police force, and we need a strong SEC.
Cramer was destroyed! <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5MFj45PnXx4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5MFj45PnXx4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WUMy71Mj9Vo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WUMy71Mj9Vo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Here is another Republican that was destroyed last night.Notice these guys don't debate to well.Maybe that's why they only have insults to fall back on.
One of John's points is that if CNBC wants to claim they are simply an entertainment show when people pressure them. The rest of the time they claim they are the definitive source of all things financial such as making statements like ...In Cramer We Trust. It's convenient of them to say, well, we are just an entertainment show when they market themselves as much more than that. It's a morally dishonest position for CNBC to take both positions when it suits them.
We can only get better as a country when we stop attacking differances and learn to embrace what binds Americans together. We are failing largely because of a strategy to treat the other side as enemies and exhibit severe intolerance. Further intolerance breeds a willingness to embrace activities which promote idealism rather than realism. For example, as a liberal you are pressured to hate guns, focus on bad news, diminish good news. God forbid you are a liberal who enjoys gun rights as protected by the 2nd admendment. You are outcast and pressured. Same for a Republican, God forbid you embrace larger, more meaningful social programs. That doesn't make sense. The problem I have with the DailyShow is they have contributed to a finger pointing mindset which further cultivates the idealism of division. That is NOT the change Obama has spoke of, but that is exactly what the show is about. It's about attacking others along divisional lines bred on political idealism. Watch the laughter stop or at least die down if they ever point the finger at themselves. But let's continue this course America...It's up to you. But then again we are either turtles or scorpions. It's our nature. We can both make it during this flood if we work together or we can both die...
Fwiw yonkers. I had a dream saying your response would be "good one" "you" "got" "me". It was in an AIM message so I have no idea how you got my AIM. Just thought I'd share this revelation.
Uhh DUH, Its Obama, you doufus. The market knew ahead of time the Obama was coming and it started to tank.
