Wait a minute!!!! That's exactly like Obama... It just occurred to me we should vote against anyone who's a good speaker, because they are probably like Hitler. No thank you, Herr Obama! I'm glad I realized before it was too late.
first of all, thanks for your sacrifice. ive got two cousins in the military - one is a ranger who has done two tours in afghanistan and one in iraq and the other is in intelligence and just left for his 3rd tour of iraq on saturday. hes got 3 kids, all under 12 and one w/ downs syndrome. he is actually pretty nervous - this is his first time where he will actually be doing intel gathering in combat zones - previously, he was just working behind the lines. ive seen firsthand how difficult it is on you guys and your families, so its nice to see that despite what you went through your spirits are still high. i think its wrong to protest the war in front of recruiting stations. i dont believe that is the proper place to do that and you are protesting against the wrong people. the recruiters arent the ones who started the war. that being said, there have been several cases of recruitment stations or officers outright lying to potential recruits and manipulating them into signing on the dotted line. in those cases, i think it is justified for people to protest in front of those particular stations and make potential recruitees aware of who they are dealing with. i do have to take exception to calling protesters ball-less though. as you said, it is our right to protest. but it might be fair to say that if you are a strong advocate of the war and believe it is necessary and do not enlist than you might be ball-less. furthermore, if you claim that you better serve the country by working in the private sector and making a bunch of money for yourself rather than fighting in iraq as certain more vocal posters here have claimed than you are probably a ball-less douchebag.
That is a great point. It's clear to me now that the roots of Nazism lie in the speeches of Abraham Lincoln.
here is a link to a pretty detailed timeline and a bunch of info about tora bora - it took a month to begin any bombing campaign and special forced didnt get in there till november. based on the info it seems like the civilian leadership in dc held up the military and in particular special forces, who could have gotten there and prevented escape into pakistan. check it out. http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/...ld=afghanistan&timeline=complete_911_timeline this is hippie talk! whats funny is that alot of people seem to get this attitude after being in combat zones. my ranger cousin, who is probably the toughest person i know has basically said the exact same thing. kind of makes you go 'hmm...'.
Hi us_marine007, thank you for your service and sacrifice, thank you for sharing your insights. My question involves the politicization of "supporting the troops." I could certainly make a case for both sides of the war debate being guilty of exploiting the efforts of OEF / OIF veterans in order to gain political traction (from the Berkeley Jackasses to the megadittoes crowd). In my experience working in the PTSD / mental health wing of a VA Hospital, I never ever find myself talking about the sort of issues which get discussed on this BBS - good war / bad war / republicans / democrats etc. It's not because I would not 'go there' because it is so sensitive, its just that it does not seem central to the post-deployment issues (vocational training, redeployment, physical injuries, mental health, etc) facing soldiers in their re-adjustment. I always find there are some transcendent truths which seem to take the well-being of warfighters out of the 'red-state v. blue-state' context. I don't know if that is just because I am at a VA, or because it's really not framing the issues properly. I am wondering, if you have time and feel an inclination to respond: 1) Do you feel like the voice of OEF / OIF returning veterans - in regards to needs during and after deployment - are being articulated and addressed in a meaningful fashion anywhere in the national discourse? If so, where and by whom? 2) What is your opinion on the political flavor of the debates in threads like these; silly and flimsy debates between people who have no clue what they are talking about, or does they feel resonant and relevant to you? 3) Do you feel like the experiences of you and your fellow servicemen and servicewomen are exploited my those involved in these debates and political matches? I often feel like the arguments, on either side, seem patronizing, as if "the troops" were small children, rather than three dimensional intelligent adults. But maybe, in a way, it feels like people really care and are willing to go to the mat for them. I'm interested in your take. As always, thanks for your efforts, I send you best wishes from me and my family to you.
I have never seen such open and outward disdain for a member of our military such as this. Liberals, you should be ashamed. No one has responded to the honorable Marine's points in an intelligent fashion.
ooooohhhhho hohohohohohohohohohoho dadadadadad tiggoooooo hoooooooooooooooooo my lil t my lil o o oo oo o o o o o o p or o o o o o0
Thanks man! 1. I cant speak for the other OIF and OEF veterans... but for me... the only thing i really need is a simple thank you... which i do get alot from pro-war and anti-war crowds 2. I welcome all kinds of debates in this forum, i like it... and if someone argues with me, then go ahead, thats democracy... debates opens up your mind to new things yah know. Were debating on how to make our country better, not how to destroy it.. the left has their points and the right has their points... I dont get offended and resolve to name callings... infact i barely get offended.. the only time i get offended is if someone talks smack about my family.. and my country... and my countrymen.. democrats and republicans alike.... 3. No I dont feel that way, we signed up to be in the military knowing that there are politicians who will be in control of us.. we arent civilians, we are military which means "u.s. government property." with that being said... it is their right because they are above us... all i can do is follow the chain of command...
Thats a little childish right there... u sound like Fran Blinebury.. but oh well, thats your right to act like that...
the last word: <embed FlashVars='videoId=163653' src='http://www.thedailyshow.com/sitewide/video_player/view/default/swf.jhtml' quality='high' bgcolor='#cccccc' width='332' height='316' name='comedy_central_player' align='middle' allowScriptAccess='always' allownetworking='external' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer'></embed>
I lied. This is the last word. kinda sounds like Keiff Dobermann. [rquoter] Commentary: Why I Don’t Support the Troops By Kenneth Thiesen 2008-03-11 In the recent political battle around the Marine recruiting station in Berkeley there has been much confusion around the concept or slogan of “supporting the troops,” but opposing the unjust wars of the Bush regime. Many who oppose the Bush regime wars also say they “support the troops.” Let me say it straight out—I do not support the troops and neither should you. It is objectively impossible to support the troops of the imperialist military forces of the U.S. and at the same time oppose the wars in which they fight. The United States has over 700 military bases or sites located in over 130 foreign countries. The hundreds of thousands of troops stationed in these countries are not there to preserve or foster freedom and democracy as the Bush regime would like to claim, but to maintain U.S. imperialist domination of the world. The United States now spends more on its military than all the other nations of the world combined. If you “support the troops” in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the other more than 100 countries in which they are located, you also objectively support U.S. hegemony in the world. I believe that the vast majority of people who say they support the troops do not wish to support U.S. imperialism, but that is what they are really doing by putting forth the slogan of “support the troops.” We need to oppose the recruitment of men and women into the military. We need to support resisters within the military who have realized what they are doing and now choose to resist the role of the U.S. military. This includes people such as Lt. Ehren Watada who refused to deploy to Iraq. Watada stated, “Never did I imagine my president would lie to go to war, condone torture, spy on Americans…” He was the first officer to refuse to go to Iraq and he was court-martialed. Another resister is Camilo Mejia. In 2004 Sergeant Mejia was sentenced to one year in prison when he was court-martialed for refusing to assist the military in Iraq. Mejia said, “I am only a regular person that got tired of being afraid to follow his own conscience. For far too long I allowed others to direct my actions even when I knew that they were wrong....” We need to expose that those in the U.S. military are trained to be part of a “killing machine.” While not every member of the military is an individual murderer, they are all part of a system that commits war crimes, including aggressive wars, massacres, rape, and other crimes against humanity, all in the service of U.S. imperialism. The bottom line is that even if these people are relatives or friends, you can not support the troops without also supporting the objective role that these troops play in the imperialist system. United States troops are acting as destructive and murderous forces of invasion and occupation. The people of Iraq and Afghanistan see this on a daily basis. Hundreds of thousands have died as a direct result of the U.S. invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Millions are either internal or external refugees. Tens of thousands have been detained in prisons, with thousands of these tortured and scores murdered. Haditha, Iraq where 24 Iraqis were massacred is just the best known of the massacres. Women and children are routinely described as “collateral damage” by military spokespersons when they are murdered in military operations. “Support for the troops” has become political cover to support the wars. In Congress, many of those who claim they oppose the wars, use “support of the troops” to vote for hundreds of millions of dollars to fund the wars. These politicians are political opportunists, but there are also people who genuinely oppose the war, but who also say “I support the troops.” But to decide whether U.S. troops deserve support you must analyze what they actually do in countries occupied by the U.S. The wars these troops are engaged in have the goal of maintaining and extending U.S. hegemony throughout the world. They are unjust, illegal, and immoral wars. Can you support the troops in these wars? Why is this any different from a German in World War II saying, “I oppose the wars launched by Hitler, but I support the troops of the German army which are making these wars possible.” When the Marines in Haditha massacred Iraqis, including women and children, would it have been correct to say I supported the Marines who killed those people, but not the massacre? This would be ridiculous, but no more so than supporting the troops engaged in the war that made the Haditha massacre possible in the first place. In 1933 Marine Major General Smedley Butler clarified the role of the U.S. military. He stated, “War is just a racket…It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses…I spent 33 years and four months in active military service as a member of this country’s most agile military force, the Marine Corps…In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism...” Like Butler, Watada, and Mejia, those in the military today must take responsibility for what the military does. Just like the German soldiers of World War 2 could not hide behind the “I was just following orders” excuse, military personnel today also can not hide behind it. Those of us who oppose the unjust wars of the Bush regime must struggle with those in the military and those that support them to expose what role the troops objectively play. Supporting the troops engaged in making war against other nations and people on behalf of U.S. imperialism is not acceptable. Oakland resident Kenneth J. Theisen is an organizer with the World Can’t Wait! Drive Out the Bush Regime! [/rquoter]
Have you guys been to Berkeley? These rich people live in a alternate reality. they study liberal arts cause they don't need to get a real job cause their parents pay their $1000 rent. forget Iraq, these people need to cross the street to OAKLAND. <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EOnPJegjUts&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EOnPJegjUts&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
