Coveting Players on Other Teams Erodes Team Identity.

Morey has done a good job swapping enough assets to find some star power. But I am tired of the revolving door roster. I want to have some good guys I can root for more than a just a couple of years before they are swapped out for some other guys.

To be honest, I have little interest in all the trade talks. I seldom go into those trade threads. I am like, que sera sera. Whoever Morey gets, he gets.

I understand and identify with the OP's sentiment. I do think that it's not about the "core" that is assumed to be the star players of the team. The core can be some solid role players who have been on the team for a long haul. Haslem is part of the Heat's core, even though his role is getting smaller and smaller.

And coaching is definitely an important part of the core. How much the coach affects winning is debatable. Maybe it doesn't make a significant difference statistically. But the coach is right at the center of a team's identity. Throwing out head coaches every 4 years or so is not going to give you a stable team identity.

Again, I value character guys on my team, perhaps even more than I value winning. I've always felt that if all I wanted was to get as many good players as I could to get some wins, then why didn't I just go play fantasy league? The game would just be a game of number, and not of real people, to me. I want to root for players I like, not just players who can win for me.

 

Morey knows this guys. Which is why he's done everything he can to keep Parsons out of trade talks.

Morey had to flip the roster over for star power, but you'd be surprised at how much he values the Shane Battier types that really makeup the soul of the team. He went into this past year with no ability to get any impact players that couldn't be signed to a vet min or rookie contract. That's going to severely limit your ability to get the types of players you can build your culture around for years to come.

Going after a 3rd star IMO isn't something Morey probably feels like he absolutely has to do, but there is no reason for him not to at least try while he has the short window to do so. It hasn't even been a year yet since the Rockets landed Dwight to pair with Harden. Have a little bit of patience, and lets see what he can do to improve the talent level first.

 

Agreed. I think some someone fresh to the NBA can create some more excitement for us. And if we draft someone amazing, we gotta make sure we keep him here and build on it with more youngins.

 

If we have a coach like Popovich, then we can build an identity. Using Spurs as an example for the rockets is a bad comparaison.

 

Yea, I don't really agree.

Our team identity is a fast paced offensive oriented team which avoids mid ranged shots and gets to the line often. That was what Mr. Alexander had envisioned. I am not sure if there are more than 4-5 other teams which have an identity more recogonizable than us.

Our core is Howard and Harden (and to a lesser extent Parsons), which is a strong start, but adding one more major piece is even stronger. Your core gives you a baseline core competency which few other teams have and gives you an advantage on a night in and night out basis. Our core competency is that James Harden scores the basketball at a ridiculously efficient rate (at high volume), that is only matched by 3 or 4 guys in the league. He does so by getting to the free throw line at a high rate, which by the nature of the foul system, opens the door for the rest of the team to score easily and efficiently as well.

The problem is Harden is limited. He cannot produce like that every single game, and we have no real reliable backup options who can carry the team if Harden is having an off game/series/week. Lin failed in that regard, and adding another premiere offensive talent (Lowry/Melo/Love) would help offset those bad games.

Once the core is set, THEN you add role players and fill to deficiencies of the team. In our case, we turn the ball over quite a bit, and we need some defensive role players, and to a lesser extent we could use help rebounding.

At this point, we need that one more guy, as Morey acknowledged. The sooner we get that third guy, the sooner we can started filling in our deficiencies with the right role players.

If we can land Melo this offseason, that is a home run.

 

First, I think the rockets have a good chance to get Melo if we can not get Love, but without a good coach, what kind of a home run are you referring? Look at OKC, they are a better team than the Rockets, but with their current coach, a chance to win a title is not high.

 

It's easy to say this in the offseason. But when you were watching LMA destroying Jones in the playoffs, were you thinking, "Hey, hopefully in 2 years Jones may be good enough to defend the likes of Alridge." Or were you like me and thinking, "Man, would be nice if Aldridge is on the Rockets."

 

The even better question while watching LMA destroy Jones- "Is this team good enough to win a championship with Jones as its starting 4". You could ask the same thing about Beverley at point, or Parsons as the SF, or the main players who make up our bench.

And for some of those players, I think the answer would be yes. But if there are any answers that are no- then that is a position that needs to try to be upgraded. Which leads to thinking about players from other teams to try to upgrade it.

 

To me, coveting other team's players doesn't erode team identify, what erodes team identity is having the wrong players. Conversely, what promotes team identity is having the right players-- the kind of players who are willing to play as a team, give maximum effort and put winning above personal stats.

Take the 2007-08 Celtics, for example: Danny Ainge spent years coveting other teams' players and gathering and swapping assets. The 2006-07 Celtics team was terrible. People were calling Doc Rivers incompetent and Paul Pierce selfish.

They ended up with the "Ubuntu" team as the result of major trades that won a title in their first season together. It didn't matter that Allen and Garnett were new to the team, or that PJ Brown was a midseason addition. These guys played with defensive intensity, effort and unselfishness-- a new culture that Ainge credits Kevin Garnett for leading the charge on.

If you want the right type of team identity, you have to have the right players, especially the right star players, each willing to hold himself and each other accountable and to play for each other. It doesn't matter if the guy is a longtime franchise stalwart like Tim Duncan is now or a new addition like Garnett was to the Celtics in 2007-08.

 

Yall needs to be patient. Building a championship teams has a lot to do with building it and waiting for other teams to degenerate. Spurs is getting older and its dynasty will end once parker, duncan, manu or pop retires. Thunder is going to get blown up once Scott Brooks is fired. Golden States is going to be a joke with Steve Kerr as their head coach. The only team that can compete with the Rockets are the clippers. Once we get the 3rd star we will be unstoppable.

The way I look at it. This team has tons of potential whereas other teams in the same conference pretty much maxed out.

 

Carl campaigning and trying to turn fans against Harden.... again..... and again... and again. How may times can you say the same thing in different variations?

This is going to be a long Summer for the GARM.

 

There is no point in building "identity" or "chemistry" without a core that can contend. It is asinine and pointless to keep a core of feel good role players. I rather Morey flip assets and kick scrubs to the curb until we have a core that can contend.

 

Yao Ming

 

San Antonio is a bad example though, because they have one of the greatest coaches of all time and three hall of famers. Some of that is due to keeping the teams identity, but most of that is due to the team having a GREAT identity. The Rockets have a terrible identity right now so I'd rather not keep our poor defense, 4th quarter stagnant offense, weak mentality identity. We may not have to "shuffle the deck", but we need a couple significant moves before we're built for playoff contention rather than regular season contention.

 

You people see everything, including an explanation of how Garnett helped build the identity of the Celtics championship team, as a slight against your boy Harden.

How many times are you people going to defend Harden in many different ways, including against comments which don't even mention his name? This is going to be a long summer for the GARM because of you people.

Teams do often reflect the "identity" of their top guys, whether these top guys are Jordan, Hakeem, Yao, Kobe, McGrady, Francis, Nash or whoever.

 

What Do You Mean, You People?

 

You can create a well thought out thread/post, and you are obvious a pretty smart guy. Please dont act like nobody sees through what you are doing.

Harden is not "my boy". He's a talented franchise player for the Houston Rockets... a team for which I happen to be a life long fan of. He has faults which should obviously be a topic of discussion on a Rockets fan-site. Its a huge deal for the team.

However, I'm not going to sit here and partake in a smear campaign because that's exactly what this is for you. I don't know what you have to prove here with James Harden, but you need to just come out and say it instead of trying to play people dumb, and lead the sheep off the cliff.

Houston sports fans have enough to be upset and disgruntled about. Harden is going to be here for a little while longer and we all know that athletes this talented don't come through Houston everyday and usually aren't appreciated until they are gone.

If other people want to join in on Carl and other's Harden Pity Party than have at it, but at least call it for what it is instead of constructing well written 100 word smear campaigns meant to plant seeds that ultimately create anti-fandom.

 

The OP proposed a theory about team identity. I posted a reply on the topic-- that a team's identity doesn't so much depend on having guys who played together for several years but rather depend on how each player, especially the top players, on the roster acts. I offered the example of the 2007-08 Celtics, which instantly formed an "identity" when its 3 top players got together for the very first year.

Where you think the current Rockets, with James Harden and Dwight Howard as their top guys, stand is a matter of your opinion. I simply made a directly reply to the topic of this thread. I have addressed my thoughts on Harden elsewhere. If you want to argue that point, perhaps you should do so in these places.

 

Identity is not about playing style. It's about character.

I felt more proud as a Rockets fan in 2009 than in 2014. That 2009 team had character. The 2014 team had more talent but not that much character.