That was in regard to folks saying waitstaff have a sense of entitlement. I was giving a basis on why they are tipped, and it does not come from any sense of entitlement. It comes from some shift in the way restaurants did business a long time ago whereby the waiters essentially got paid by the customers directly, instead of indirectly like at a fast food restaurant. Dont blame the player, blame the game. Something like that anyway. Though if the player acts a fool playing the game, sure, blame the player. But most do it properly.
Interesting discussion. I have been to quite a few countries around the world and while I love the USA and think you guys have fantastic restaurants and generally pretty good service (better than in some European countries like France, England or Scandinavian countries, but not nearly as good as across Asia - without the tipping culture), I think you have gone insane with regard to your excessive tipping culture. Let me address some of the comments. baller, I see your perspective, but I think you are wrong when you say "if it states on the receipt" - the receipt comes after people have made their decision to buy. For the statement to have any relevance, if any, it would have to be on the menu so that people would make an informed decision before they consume. Fully agree with this post, and good example. Anyone who has traveled in Asia would probably be able to confirm this. "No incentive at all" is obviously nonsense. Anyone who is employed and gets a salary is supposed to do a good job. Arguably, in at least some states in the US, the basic salary is so low that waiters speculate on the tips, but still - according to your logic, every non-waiter who works for a salary and doesn't get a tip has "no incentive at all" to do a good job. How about the incentive of keeping the job? Genuinely wanting to do a good job and to provide good service? Again, it needs to be listed on the menu, not on the receipt. As a general rule (with few exceptions), for anything to be included in a contract, it needs to be presented before the contract is formed. I actually think that is a pretty brilliant idea. I predict that someone will do this within the next ten years, and that it will spread. It seems like you guys in the US have "tipping inflation". It's like...you get bad service, you still tip 12 %, you get decent service you tip 15-20 % (I seem to remember that 15 % was for good service at some point?!), you get really good service, you tip a whopping 25 %? That's pretty crazy. Imagine you are a party of 4, you tip 25 %, the waiter might as well sit down and eat/drink what one person had. Tipping has totally gone out of control in the US, and as one person pointed out in this thread, "mandatory gratuities" really are an oxymoron and the existence of this idea only goes to show how messed up your tipping system has become. One more comment, I hated it when in some restaurants in the US, the waiters would try to be overly funny/friendly/annoying and would rattle off all the specials of the day and do all this obviously fake bs only for the tips. I would think just shut up, let me take my time to see what I want to order and bring me what I would want. Final disclaimer: I am a rather generous tipper, I probably overtip all the time in Europe because I tend to tip as if I were in the US. I even tip when I receive bad service because of an inexplicable desire to avoid being mean to people whose job I would never want to do, but I usually get mad at myself for doing so.
In my experience with Europe, the service is definitely a tier below. Europeans I know that have moved here love the tipping system. I'd suggest that Japanese society as a whole puts more attention on respect/attention to detail/etc - things that would all contribute to good service. One of the problems comparing across cultures is that it's difficult to extract the effects of simple cultural differences from causal factors particular to tipping vs no tipping. I should also say - this obviously doesn't apply to everyone. Many waiters/waitresses will simply provide good service because they take pride in their job. But tipping provides an extra incentive mechanism to both reward that and to penalize bad employees. As a business owner, it's always ideal to have your employee reward system aligned with the goals of the business - tipping is an effective way to do that. And since much of tipping is done on credit card, the business also knows the total tips each employee is getting, so if they really want to, they can use that to objectively evaluate their employees and promote the good ones / remove the bad ones.
i have no idea - why did you bring it up? i was directly responding to someone who claimed that waiters are making over $20/hour. i would say that the average waiter in the average restaurant is making about $12/hour. what exactly are you trying to argue w/ me here on? you can lay off the caps there nancy. first of all, i never said i didnt like waiting tables - i said it can be hard work. second, i waited tables while i was getting an education and a little beyond (4 years off and on) - i havent waited tables since 2001. and ive got a good education and a good job - thanks for your concern though! and your point is? what exactly are you trying to argue w/ me about? thanks joel osteen.
how do you know it wasnt on the menu? i dont know either, but i would assume that they state somewhere that big parties have the gratuity automatically included - if the customers were not informed beforehand then i can see it being an issue though. but i dont think that was the issue in this particular case - they just didnt want to tip at all b/c they felt the service was poor. as i already said a couple times, when i had big parties i would usually not include the tip - for the most part, big parties will hook you up as long as you take care of them.
meh did a good job of explaining what i was saying and you still dont get it. again, i was directly responding to someone claiming waiters make over $20/hour. what is this 'entitlement' trip you are on? you are being silly. one other thing - if waiting tables is such a great, easy, high paying job than why is the turnover rate as bad as it is? what is the average time someone lasts in a restaurant - about 6 months - a year?
if the manager admitted himself the the couple's food came out late who's supposed to take a hit for it? the couple, the servers, or the establishment itself? I mean if the establishment was willing to comp the couple's food, might as the care of the couple by covering the servers' tip
the restaurant should have covered it, which the manager claims they tried to do. if they really did offer to comp the entire meal than it makes no sense why they wouldnt have just comped the tip and saved themselves from all the bad publicity.
I've traveled across Europe too, and it is more hit and miss than Asia. But overall I don't find too much difference compared to America. I'm talking everything from the small low-fare places to upper scale. In America there is plenty of crappy service at many spots. I will say that the top of the line restaurants in America do tend to have better service than in Europe. But even in European countries where tipping is part of the culture (like Italy), I don't find it to be any huge difference. I understand what you're saying, and it very well may be a valid point. Hard to say like you said. Whatever the reason is, Japan is awesome in that regard.
I know this is a little off topic, but I didn't want to make a new thread, but anyways. Do you guys think people working at a Buffet restaurant deserve a tip? I still do tip them, but I have a hard time doing so because at a buffet you mostly get food for yourself, all they do is get your dirty plates and refill your drinks.
ive been a server/bartender off and on for quite some time. (and yes i look forward to the day when im done with school and can be done with it) ive always wished though that instead of getting a $10 tip from someone and no tip from some jackass that has no class or even a 10% tip, i could just get two $5 tips. thats not how it works though. you have some people that have decent morals and then you have some that dont. some people out there dont realise that servers just make around $2 an hour. and then you take into account that you have to claim more tips at the end of the day with the more sales you have. so essentially you are paying extra taxes for nothing when someone doesnt tip. but even more people dont realise you have to tip out a percentage of your tip to various people where you work. usually anywhere from 2%-4%. to bartenders/hosts/food runners/barbacks/people that roll silverware. so say for instance where i worked a few years ago you tipped 4%. you have a table that has a $80 check and they leave $0-$5 that means you tip out a little over $3 which means you walk away with negative -$3 to $2 for that table plus claiming more money which you didnt make at the end of the night. there are a few times in my life where if i had the chance i would have beat down a few people for being rude/not tipping. but then again working with the public you have to deal with these things from time to time, not just being a bartender or server.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OtQ6km5VpW8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OtQ6km5VpW8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/QUOTE] For a second I thought Laura Dern went nuts, or was in a play. "If you're reciting a bunch of homilies with no real point, shut the f**k-up."
im with you. i dont tip if they dont bring me the food. i hate that lubys dumped the all those nice old tea ladies in favor of "servers". i eat a luby's quite a bit and i dont tip them - bringing me a straw (which i dont use anyway) and refilling my water once is not deserving of a buck. i really hope those people are at least making minimum wage. the whole 'tip jar' phenomenon has gotten way out of hand though - sandwich shops, coffee shops, ice cream - to expect 'tips' for making your sandwich our pouring your coffee is a little overboard.
Damn, peleincubus, is that how it is these days? Back in my days as a server I only had to tip out the bartender. As a bartender, only the barback. And, I don't think I have ever claimed my tips. It's inconceivable (mr. montoya, am I using it correctly?) that you can actually loose money. Wow...times are a changing. (dangit, just realize that I'm aging myself again....nvm, different century) Still, it sucks if you can actually lose money.
