Steve is the man...He has done nothing over the past few years to justify a first class ticket out of here immediately... Granted, this was probably his worst year since he's been here, but a lot of this has to do with JVG and there inability to co-exist... I would only want SF to go if it were for T-Mac, straight up...
He didn't say those things, I did. I'm not advocating loyalty at all costs by any means. But a hint of loyalty would be nice, instead of the cold, unfeeling sentiment that "the NBA is a business". If I wanted complete and total loyalty, I would want us to keep the team we have forever, with no regard to the production of our players, and never do anything to improve at all. But I don't. All I'm asking is that we don't just throw away our All-Star point guard without so much as a look back in his direction. He'll reach the "elite" status soon enough, and I'd like to have him on our team when he does.
Quote by wireonfire For the "absolute minority", I meant you calling "this is Francis's team, not Yao's" and "Yao has plenty time to become a flop". Why don't you make a poll out those comments to see how many agree with you? _____________________ Actually, I was not the one calling this SF's team, although one could make a case for that if one wanted to, and YOA does have plenty of time to flop, as does any other 2 year player (although he also has plenty of time to succeed). My comments were intended to rebut the perception that wanting SF on this team somehow put someone in a "minority", which is the way I read your reply. I think the trade/not trade SF poll says it all with regard to a someone being in a "minority" in regards to not trading SF. Quote by wireonfire There was another poll, btw, after the trade talk for TMac started. 80% chose to trade for TMac at any cost except Yao. ______________________ No $#@%! I voted in that poll as well (in the 80% group I might add, but in the 50% category in the prior poll). When you change the dynamics of the trade, especially when your talking about a player of TMac's caliber, you will tend experience a dramatic shift in opinions, at least for most people. I would venture to guess that if the trade didn't have a TMac caliber player, you would see the opinion sway back to the aforementioned results of the general trade/not trade poll.
Quote by Ender120 I'm not advocating loyalty at all costs by any means. But a hint of loyalty would be nice, instead of the cold, unfeeling sentiment that "the NBA is a business". If I wanted complete and total loyalty, I would want us to keep the team we have forever, with no regard to the production of our players, and never do anything to improve at all. But I don't. All I'm asking is that we don't just throw away our All-Star point guard without so much as a look back in his direction. He'll reach the "elite" status soon enough, and I'd like to have him on our team when he does. ___________________________ I indicated that I sympathize with your passion, but I think that when you are talking about trading for a player of TMac’s caliber, you have to consider it as long as the deal is not totally one-sided to the other teams favor. SF may still become a player at TMacs level in the future, but that has not happened yet. As it currently stands, I would take an absolutely special player (arguable top 5 talent who is 25 years old) over a really great player (arguable top 20-25 player who is 27 years old). Hell, I would trade Yao if the right deal came along (say Duncan). I do not believe that making such a trade would be totally a matter of loyalty, as much as it would be a matter of doing want is right for the team. I am more loyal to the Rockets as a team than I am to an individual player, although I do not wish SF any ill will. To the contrary, if we do not trade SF this off season I will not be upset, but if we can trade him for TMac I would be excited for my team.
Sorry, wheelmi answered my comment on Ender120, so I didn't check and replied him as the original poster. But anyways I'd say most people here wouldn't agree with those two statements, "This is Francis' team, not Yao's", "Yao has plenty time to become a flop".
Quote by wireonfire Sorry, wheelmi answered my comment on Ender120, so I didn't check and replied him as the original poster. But anyways I'd say most people here wouldn't agree with those two statements, "This is Francis' team, not Yao's", "Yao has plenty time to become a flop". ________________________ Thanks for the apology, but none was required. Not sure if I would try to lable this teams as anyone's, but again, I think you could make a case for either.
I'm all for doing what's best for the team (and that's not always clear). What I'm always against in reveling in the trading of a player who's hustled his ass off. Whether superstar or not, and shortcomings aside, if they worked hard for this team they deserve some R E S P E C T.
Quote by Cohen I'm all for doing what's best for the team (and that's not always clear). What I'm always against in reveling in the trading of a player who's hustled his ass off. Whether superstar or not, and shortcomings aside, if they worked hard for this team they deserve some R E S P E C T. ___________________ Agreed!
Sure a hustle player deserves a lot of respect, but not necessarily a max contract. I'd love to have players like Madsen. But that is a role player coming off bench to give some energy. That is great. Here we are talking about the leader of the team. He needs more brain than great hustle. Francis' poor decision making hurts the team more than his hustle could make up.
It's more than just 'energy', it's about leaving your heart on the court. Francis's shortcoming are irrelevant to whether he deserves the fans' respect. Like I said, he may (or may not) 'need' to be traded, but that doesn't mean that we should treat him like s***.
I rarely hear fans saying they dislike Francis as a person. Yes, he wears his heart on his sleave, or leaves it on the court. But that is not good enough to be the leader of the team, to be one who takes a big chunk out of the team's salary cap. It is not the respect to him as a person, it is the respect to him as a player for the job he is hired to do. Many of us don't think he is a good fit for the job.
Then who deserves that big chunk? Some of ya'll might not realize, but Steve deserved that max contract, period. It might not seem that way now, but if you want to complain about contracts, complain about Cato, MoT, Maloney, Moochie, etc...
I never said he doesn't deserve it. Don't be so edgy. I meant he is being expected more than just hustle plays for his max contract.
Did I say that he was? You're not quite getting it yet. Let's say you gave your all at your job, but your boss doesn't think you're a 'good fit'. Would you like to see a 'Countdown to wireonfire exit' on the company bulletin board?
No, I won't. But I'd be happy to earn my 10mil+ a year somewhere else. Maybe another place I'll be a "good fit". You don't get paid 10mil+ per just because you gave it all out at your job.
I for one respect Steve Francis a great deal. If only more players played with the kind of heart he has. But I don't think he has the ability we need, or is the kind of fit that can take us to a championship. If he stays and improves, great. If the team decides to move him and we get a top tier player in return, also great. Whatever helps the team. Trading him for a top tier player that many can consider among the top 3 at his position is hardly throwing him away 'without a look back.' We're not desperate to get rid of him and wanting peanuts in return. There is very little reason to believe this at all. Honestly. Steve haters aside, the most objective person would find very little actual evidence to believe he will become 'elite'. And therein lies the problem.
Steve gets paid 10mil+ per because his ability, not because he gave it all. Even though his numbers are down, he still does things a lot of players can't, and the ones that do, are getting paid just as much. Stats aren't important to some people and stats are the key to some people, but Steve is a special kind of player.
