I really do appreciate all the posts on this. Trader Jorge's line of clever BS almost inticed me to start debating again, but I'll have to wait. I'll still try and post in other threads, and usually I really do enjoy the debate and quality of debate on this board. It's one of the reasons I'm addicted to this site. It's also fairly balanced in terms of people on either side of the issue. MacBeth pretty much nailed what a lot of my disillusionment deals with. That and the whole Ashcroft (anti) patriot act. The thing is I love the U.S. and I hate seeing the principles I thought the country stood for being trashed, and watching other Americans cheer while it's happening. When money speaks louder than voices and whatever bills that try to counter it are shot down. If it were just one of those things I would feel like pressing on, but with all of them together... It's rough. Hopefully a change will come. Sorry if being specific about my reasons may make people want to argue.
Trust me, it can get MUCH worse. Go to the "Almost Anything Goes" forum at this Astros' forum: http://pub45.ezboard.com/bastrosbaseball . There are people there that honestly want a complete extermination of atheists, muslims and homosexuals.
OK, get ready for a really bad joke (this board has forced me to have stupid disclaimers now because otherwise nobody "gets it." You shouldn't insult yourself like that. I don't have a bbs persona.
I agree with that. I know that when I'm debating someone, I am not taking their difference of opinion as a slam against me personally, and I hope that no one takes any of my posts to be a slam against them. Even though some seemingly personal attacks do get through, I know that's just part of arguing a lot of the time. But with all the people who disagree with my opinions on this board (and there are quite a few), there aren't any that I feel like I couldn't sit down and have a beer with, if I drank beer, that is.
Rejoice in the idea that we Americans don't think we are better than others in this world, we just think our system is government is better, and everybody in the world should be blessed with the same freedoms. It is far from perfect, but still the best. Rejoice that all humans beings are blessed with inalienable rights granted to them by a higher power (or nature). The United States, despite mistakes of the past, is progressing slowly forward in its righteous quest of spreading freedom across the globe. Rejoice in the idea that if world governments do not respect the inalienable rights of their citizens, WATCH OUT! We are heading toward a time in history when the sovereignty of those same nations will NOT be respected unless they reform. I know that NONE OF US want to support leaders that will leave our children and grandchildren a world in which men like Saddam and Kim can torture large populations. Woohoo! Happy Sunday, you cynical elitist expatriot pornstar bangin' b*stard!!
john...we could go through the same song and dance, but I haven't got the energy...I can sum up why your argument is hypocritical in two words: Enforced subjectivity. If you don't get this, let me know...
ah, enforced subjectivity- the enemy of moral relativism. Our entire system of laws, concept of government, mores, scruples, etc. are enforced subjectivity. In fact. every rule that governs how people interact with one another is enforced subjectivity. I guess when you come to this BBS and opine about how you would change our government, or healthcare system, or foreign policy, then you are also a hypocrite? I don't want you to get up from your relaxed Sunday to address this point, but surely you can do better than to accuse me of a most vital concept to civilization- enforced subjectivity.
Guys, come on now. All of this arguing is B.S. Im always right while others are sometimes right or always wrong.
Well, I guess you passed out, but when you come back, answer the following question. How is my wanting to topple despotic regimes and give freedom to enslaved people any more an example of "enforced subjectivity" than your wanting the government to forcibly remove money from a taxpayer's wallet for universal healthcare?
John..before I proceed with explaining the difference between residents of a nation getting together and deciding on a system and set of moral/legal codes which work for them, and agree to enforce them within their own nation and that same nation deciding that what we decided should be the case for everyone else, and going out and 'blessing' them with force, I will ask you one thing on an unrelated matter...Where do you get your opinion on my opinion of universal healthcare?
Dismiss the healthcare comment. That is irrelevant, and I am sure that I could be wrong. Substitute any government force for universal healthcare. I knew when I hit the submit button that I had made a mistake with that example, but I was to lazy to edit, lol. Also, I think I see where you are headed with your argument, so remember that our forefathers didn't go out and "decide" what our basic rights were to be. They affirmed man's natural rights, and then designed a government that could not infringe upon those rights. All men yearn for their natural state of freedom, despite the fact that many of those same men still desire to subjugate the people around them. It is the people who wish to subjugate others that practice "enforced subjectivity", not those would fight for freedom. I only propose that we make the world a better place by allowing all people to shape their own existence and determine their own fate. One more thing, do try to answer the amended question- How is my wanting to topple despotic regimes and give freedom to enslaved people any more an example of "enforced subjectivity" than your wanting the government to forcibly remove money from a taxpayer's wallet for (insert your favorite government program that you would like to see implemented)?
Same here, I've had enough political BS to choke a horse, that's why I haven't been posting much lately, that and freaking work. I'll stick to arguing with my neighbors and boss for now, too much drama here.
Yes, but the trouble with T_J is that often he forgets to unzip his fly and whip out his willie before beginning to piss. He will then stand in front of you with a piss-stained pants-leg and ask you "why are you laughing at me"!
