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Could you imagine if German media does the same thing for Nazi leaders?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by pirc1, Feb 18, 2005.

  1. J DIDDY

    J DIDDY Member

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    No, please tell me how was it a " gross oversimplification"?

    I was just stating historical fact. But since u do not have the energy , its okay
     
  2. kpsta

    kpsta Member

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    For one thing, if you're talking about the 1920s-1930s, the Chinese leaders weren't sitting by idly "clinging to old ways"... there was a civil war between the Nationalists and Communists-- both of which had totally different visions of how to modernize China. They were not exactly what you would call "traditional"-minded leaders. You don't seem to draw any distinction between the rulers of Imperial China and those of the early 20th century.

    If someone else wants to pick this up though, I think there are quite a few other oversimplifications in your argument.
     
  3. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

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    To add a couple more, the imperial rule that took place before the civil war was hated by most of the people of China because they weren't Han, which was the race of most Chinese. Think Iraq where the minority group suddenly gain power. The braids you see in movies were to symbolize obedience, kind of like hairs on the back of a horses head. Infact, when Sung Dong Shan started out (the guy that was considered th father of China and a George Washington figure, and is respected by both the Nationalists and Communist) he was rebelling the imperial rule. Add to the fact that the Non Han imperial government at that time was ruled by a crazy witch with a puppet king, it was a time of turmoil. In this time of turmoil, Japan saw an advantage and took it.

    Also during the civil war, Chian Kai Shiek had a decent army that could've resisted Japan but instead decided to not use it so he can save it for the communists. Infact, that was one of his major flaws that caused him to lose a lot of support, especially in North China.

    But that's all in the past now, and I like to forgive though not neccessarily forget. But not a lot of people in China feel this way. Even most young people had their grand parents living through taht stuff and the underlying tension is there. I'm probably influence by the hopefullness and look at tommorow as a new day attitude of the U.S. It's just a difference of an culture. There's an European saying, 50 miles a long distance for Europe and 50 years is a long time for U.S. I think it's cuz this is a young nation that most of the people here don't think too hard about the past which has helped the U.S. in many ways and pushes this country forward. The rest of the world however think a different way and it would be unwise for people in this country to not understand that.
     
  4. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

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    Also, for those like Hayestreet that say nuclearize Japan, I don't think you realize how some Japanese might still feel.

    Check out some anime (in Japan they are not just for kids) like Gasaraki and tell me that there isn't a significant number of Japanese that still fell that the U.S. is a big bad opressor that dropped a bomb on them and kept them down. While large parts of Japan have bought into American pop culture just like most Chinese youth have bought into the Japanese pop culture, that doesn't neccessarily mean they no longer still have ill feeling deep inside.
     
  5. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    If Japan was to nuclearize it wouldn't be out of fear of the US is the point. It would be to balance out NK and PRC. Some cartoons are going to dictate policy. AND considering the Japanese have experienced the horror of nuclear warfare, that also cuts against them using the weapons except in self defense. It IS a complex issue no doubt though.
     
  6. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

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    How can you ever use Nukes in self defense besides the threat to use them? I'm not saying that it will be an over night thing but if Japan gets the Nuke, they are no longer under U.S.'s thumb. In this day and age, no one will really go hardcore head to head any more, but Japans public policy will likely start to be a lot more confrontational to the U.S.
     
  7. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Well, a second strike would be in self defense. A strike after a conventional strike would be in self defense. Regardless, Japan is not 'under our thumb.' We pay lots o cash every year to extend our nuclear umbrella and conventional deterrent to protect Japan. If they want to protect themselves, there is no real reason for them to resent US, especially considering the challenges presented by their neighbors - China and NK. The US-Japan Security Alliance is pretty darn strong. I doubt that their prolif would affect that other than removing some need for us to be so strongly engaged.
     

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